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Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

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Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#61

Post by jolux »

gozo wrote: post #55
larrywright wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.

So we have forgotten XcodeGhost already or the iCloud hacks?

Neither of which would be aided by opening the walled garden?

Which isn't to say I don't think there are advantages to Android's model and that of more open package repositories in general, especially for power users. However most of Apple's base is people who don't care about openness or extra repositories, they want their iPhone to work with a minimum of fuss and not have to worry about malware like you do on Android.

The fact that we can only point to a single (XcodeGhost) cromulent exploitation of the Apple App Store stack is a testament to how good Apple is at maintaining the relative security of the iOS ecosystem.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#62

Post by jolux »

nnutter wrote: post #33
AdmiralACK wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From: http://9to5mac.com/2015/06/10/xcode-7-allows-anyone-to-downl... "Apple has changed its policy regarding permissions required to build and run apps on devices. Until now, Apple required users to pay $99/year to become a member of Apple’s Developer Program in order to run code on physical iPhone and iPads. As part of the new Developer Program, this is no longer required. Apps can be tested on devices, no purchase…

Does it let you install binary apps or do you have to compile from source? Do they still have to be signed? Who verifies the signature?

You have to compile it.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#63

Post by IBM »

gozo wrote: post #55
larrywright wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.

So we have forgotten XcodeGhost already or the iCloud hacks?

XcodeGhost wouldn't have happened if developers weren't able to disable Gatekeeper and the iCloud hack was done with phishing for security question answers.

http://gawker.com/feds-seized-chicago-mans-computers-in-cele...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#64

Post by kbenson »

martingordon wrote: post #49
aianus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Galaxy S3 let me flash whatever I wanted on it. Just had to reboot in a special mode and click a button agreeing to void my warranty. No back door required. Why can't iPhones do the same (from a security perspective, I understand the business reasons)?

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door. A malicious actor with physical access to your phone (think screen repair shop, TSA agent, etc) could flash a compromised OS or install malware on your device. Also, there a lot of not-savvy people who will follow instructions in a well-crafted email or pop up and allow themselves to succumb to spyware and malware.

Well, it's a good thing we have Apple's track-record to show us it's impossible to break out of these walled gardens, otherwise we'd really be in trouble if someone got physical access to our phones.

https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/Jailbreak

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#65

Post by lern_too_spel »

martingordon wrote: post #49
aianus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Galaxy S3 let me flash whatever I wanted on it. Just had to reboot in a special mode and click a button agreeing to void my warranty. No back door required. Why can't iPhones do the same (from a security perspective, I understand the business reasons)?

I'm saying that the flashing/side-loading is the back door. A malicious actor with physical access to your phone (think screen repair shop, TSA agent, etc) could flash a compromised OS or install malware on your device. Also, there a lot of not-savvy people who will follow instructions in a well-crafted email or pop up and allow themselves to succumb to spyware and malware.

The device clears user storage before allowing you to flash a new OS, so that isn't an effective way to compromise a user's data. Application installation requires unlocking the device, so the ability to sideload doesn't give an attacker any meaningful ability over installing from an unscanned app store like Apple's.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#66

Post by patrickaljord »

The only way to have real privacy when it comes to software is by it being: 1) open source and 2) executable on your own servers. Open source in itself is not enough, but it is a required pre-condition, same thing with the fact that you can run it on your own server. In these aspects, Android is way ahead as there exist projects to replace all the proprietary parts.

http://www.replicant.us/

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#67

Post by pratikjhaveri »

A tad "holier than thou" attitude pointing a finger at your competitor and to a large extent the entire internet economy. It would be nice to dial down the spin/FUD machine esp when you're the CEO. Ad targeting will and has evolved. Good things happen when you understand the user and their needs - I for one am willing to trade my privacy for USEFUL features and products (to paint this as only ads is injustice). Just like I'm willing to trade my $s for good devices.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#68

Post by verusfossa »

staunch wrote: post #7

> If you buy something from the App Store, we do know what you bought from the App Store, obviously. We think customers are fine with that. Users should also be able to install apps on their iPhones without Apple knowing what they're doing. Personal computing devices shouldn't have artificial walled gardens. But I agree with him on everything else and think he's a hero for what he's doing.

I would support something like an Fdroid repo for ipas and apks. It supports private repos. Every company having a repo you could simply add would be the best. Would fix trust and maintenance costs too since you control the repo list, they control the repo.

I can't see Apple or Google giving up the cash cow that is their respective garden though.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#69

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Cookingboy wrote: post #18
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is essentially the only major US tech company that doesn't rely heavily on advertising income (and thus on online profiling to target ads effectively), and they've realized that this gives them a moral high horse from which to attack their competitors without actually having to change any of their own habits.

Neither Amazon nor Microsoft rely heavily on advertising income. Neither does IBM, HP, Oracle, Cisco, Salesforce, etc. In fact when it comes to "major US tech companies", either by revenue or by market cap, I can only think of Facebook and Google that make money mainly from advertising income.

"Consumer-focused major US tech companies," then. Hell, the logic still applies even if it's only directed at Google, who Apple seems to consider its arch-nemesis.

(And while they may not be specifically selling ads, Amazon's business model is absolutely heavily invested in invasive ad tracking, which was my point. Witness how Amazon products that you look at but don't immediately buy follow you around the Web for fucking weeks.)

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right'

#70

Post by api »

kbenson wrote: post #60
api wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately if you remove the walls from the garden you get a malware, crapware, and (ironically given the topic) spyware explosion -- a tragedy of the commons more or less. Mobile devices are used by over a billion people, most of whom don't know much about computers. From the perspective of sleazy marketers and black hat hackers that's a lot of fresh meat. They're better than PCs since they're studded with sensor…

What would we do if we didn't have apple to protect us from our own ignorance? Apple is fallible. If developers can break out of app review constraints by using carefully included bugs[1] then the only solution is actively monitoring what the apps are doing. If that's the case, what value-add is Apple's walled garden? Just keeping out crappy programs? I think there are plenty of solutions for discovering what program…

I think you and the downmodders are shooting the messenger. I do not like walled gardens any more than I like taxes or drunk driving checkpoints. I'm just explaining why they are there and why many users actually prefer them, and I'm doing so to let people know there's a problem worth solving. Pretending the problem doesn't exist doesn't help.

Computer security is just far too confusing and difficult for the non-tech-savvy. With walled gardens people can delegate their security to someone that, while not perfect, is much better at it than they are. For most people this is a huge win. This is what happens to most peoples' computers if they are "open":

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/99/259360546_504c726d0b.jpg

If someone has a better idea I'm all ears, but I don't know of one that could match the Apple Store for ease of use. Since user experience trumps everything, app stores are winning.

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