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OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

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Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#71

Post by spudlyo »

aeontech wrote: post #67
spudlyo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for bringing this up, I just cancelled my download. There is no way I'm going to run an OS that attempts to limit my power to delete or modify applications. I think this may be the final straw for me and OSX. I very recently had to attack GarageBand with a hex editor to disable app sandboxing so I could use third party VST plugins. I realize System Integrity Protection can be disabled by a kernel boot param, b…

You can delete and modify non-system apps just fine, FWIW. I imagine Game Center.app is not locked down for some nefarious reason, but just because it falls under "system owned" list.

I think GarageBand also ships with the OS (or at least it used to) so I wouldn't be surprised if it's also on the "system owned" list. This pushes all my security vs. liberty buttons.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#72

Post by strange_quark »

rndn wrote: post #62
FireBeyond wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets stuck because it's moving every Homebrew app out of /usr/local, a known but painful issue.

I think the same applies to TeX distributions. It awfully slow for some reason, perhaps it double checks each file to avoid bit errors in system critical files?

Yeah, my Yosemite update over 3 because TeX has so many files that it moves one by one out and back of the texbin directory.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#73

Post by matwood »

bdcravens wrote: post #21

If time is an issue, consider doing a wipe and fresh install then upgrade instead of upgrade in place. Apparently if you have Homebrew it gets stuck at 2 minutes, potentially for several hours.

I've been running the betas and didn't have this issue. /usr/local was also fine other than fixing the permissions.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#74

Post by mnem »

duaneb wrote: post #47
kitsunesoba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s System Integrity Protection. Under it, system files cannot be deleted or modified, even with sudo. It protects down to the block level, so even if you try to bypass the file system and write to blocks composing system files directly you’ll get an error. This can be disabled but I wouldn’t advise doing so unless you have a really good reason to.

Modifying /usr isn't THAT unusual.

It's not everything under /usr. For example, I can install things to /usr/local/bin without issue.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#75

Post by thirdsun »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #38
on_ wrote: post #30

Just upgraded. Can't delete apps. Anyone figured this out yet? Admin accound sudo rm -rf "game center.app" is returning operation not permitted. Appcleaner is not even able to find the packkages much less delete them. I have the GM though. What is this about? Edit: upgrading to the appstore version. Not sure if this was GM specific, or they are locking the Os down even more. Edit2: if you forget your password immeadi…

That’s System Integrity Protection. Under it, system files cannot be deleted or modified, even with sudo. It protects down to the block level, so even if you try to bypass the file system and write to blocks composing system files directly you’ll get an error. This can be disabled but I wouldn’t advise doing so unless you have a really good reason to.

Could this be an issue for things like homebrew or ruby/rbenv? Reading about it, one might think 10.11 could have problems with someone trying to use anything but the system-shipped ruby version, or python, etc.

On the other hand, maybe this question is rather stupid as I really can't see Apple scaring away the developer community in such an unnecessary way.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#76

Post by RexRollman »

spudlyo wrote: post #71
aeontech wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can delete and modify non-system apps just fine, FWIW. I imagine Game Center.app is not locked down for some nefarious reason, but just because it falls under "system owned" list.

I think GarageBand also ships with the OS (or at least it used to) so I wouldn't be surprised if it's also on the "system owned" list. This pushes all my security vs. liberty buttons.

I just did a wipe and clean install and it does not install GarageBand.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#78

Post by msbarnett »

thirdsun wrote: post #75
kitsunesoba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s System Integrity Protection. Under it, system files cannot be deleted or modified, even with sudo. It protects down to the block level, so even if you try to bypass the file system and write to blocks composing system files directly you’ll get an error. This can be disabled but I wouldn’t advise doing so unless you have a really good reason to.

Could this be an issue for things like homebrew or ruby/rbenv? Reading about it, one might think 10.11 could have problems with someone trying to use anything but the system-shipped ruby version, or python, etc. On the other hand, maybe this question is rather stupid as I really can't see Apple scaring away the developer community in such an unnecessary way.

> Could this be an issue for things like homebrew or ruby/rbenv?

/usr/local is not one of the SIP protected paths. The idea behind SIP is to protect system binaries from being surreptitiously patched by malicious parties, not to make the system totally useless.

> Reading about it, one might think 10.11 could have problems with someone trying to use anything but the system-shipped ruby version, or python, etc.

Aside from being really stupid from a customer standpoint, what would be the security benefit of doing this?

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#79

Post by S_A_P »

x0rg wrote: post #66
emsy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Yosemite, you should clean you Mac with petrol. But seriously, Yosemite was such a mess, it felt like an old Windows installation where formatting is the only way to regain a decent performance. I'm glad I made a clean install with the GM 2 weeks ago. The system is way better than Yosemite (but still far from being as stable as Mountain Lion)

Wait, feeling that this update is better is OK, but I don't really understand how formatting could improve thing is such a significant way.

perception is reality. I've no doubt there are cases that upgrade in place doesnt work as well as fresh install, but I am skeptical that there is dramatic demonstrable differences between the two most of the time.

Re: OS X El Capitan on the Mac App Store

#80

Post by zyxley »

thirdsun wrote: post #75
kitsunesoba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s System Integrity Protection. Under it, system files cannot be deleted or modified, even with sudo. It protects down to the block level, so even if you try to bypass the file system and write to blocks composing system files directly you’ll get an error. This can be disabled but I wouldn’t advise doing so unless you have a really good reason to.

Could this be an issue for things like homebrew or ruby/rbenv? Reading about it, one might think 10.11 could have problems with someone trying to use anything but the system-shipped ruby version, or python, etc. On the other hand, maybe this question is rather stupid as I really can't see Apple scaring away the developer community in such an unnecessary way.

The thing you name don't touch any system files for specifically this kind of reason.
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