An open-source project is more than the code. It also includes the community and the resources for continuing development. Although the code is under the GPL, Sun (and now possibly Oracle) has control of the brand and many of the potential revenue streams. A fork would lack the benefit of a clear, centralized community and many resources to fund development. Both of these things threaten the future of MySQL as an open-source project.
Why Save MySQL Now?
21–30 of 51 posts
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm firmly disagree with Monty's duplicity, but I'll try to shed some light on it. The "big deal" is that only two things provide a revenue stream around MySQL sufficient to support the heavy R&D costs associated with building a database product: - The name ("MySQL") - The copyright. If you own the name, you can sell branded binaries and services. If you own the copyright, you can sell non-GPL licenses to commercial…
Without these, creating a viable revenue stream is incredibly difficult. Yes, and Monty knew that when he chose to structure MySQL the product that way. Everything is proceeding exactly as he foresaw and intended.
I agree -- and I think Monty has no business taking umbrage with the bed he's made -- but it's worth exploring why this is the case.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
"some were paying for non-gpl'd versions of the code to integrate/resell in their products" If that's what they need, perhaps to migrate their products to a BSD-licensed RDBMS like PostgreSQL. Or to a public-domain one like SQLite. Or a fully proprietary one. It's their software and, since, they have already licensed it as proprietary, their users were already robbed the freedoms GPL'ed MySQL would provide. As it is…
The only freedom GPL denies a developer is to close up software that was once free. You can't "close up" software that was free. The software remains free. The only freedom the allegedly "more open" licenses give developers is to deny freedoms to their users. It gives developers the freedom to create an aggregate product without also releasing their own code under the GPL, allowing them to pursue a business model tha…
"However, as indicated by vast market success"
It's far too common that the person who assigns value to software and that signs the check is not the same person who puts it to work.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#24I can guarantee that for the $1Bn Sun's shareholder's paid him for it - 14% of the total price Oracle is paying for all of Sun - Monty could buy MySQL back from Oracle and do with it as he pleased. So why doesn't he?
Really? Java (which is most of the value of Sun) and MySQL are the only Sun products in mainstream use. Solaris is in the same state as HPUX was 10 years ago, VirtualBox and Sun's Xen Product don't have significant market share. Why would Oracle want to sell MySQL back?
Because they bought Sun for the hardware-business and Java. They sort-a already have a database, and if selling MySQL to Monty can save them some trouble with a bored EU regulator that gets its kicks from telling US business how to operate, I'm sure they'll be happy to. It'll have to be at market value, though, and it seems a bit like Monty wants a solution where he stays very rich.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only freedom GPL denies a developer is to close up software that was once free. You can't "close up" software that was free. The software remains free. The only freedom the allegedly "more open" licenses give developers is to deny freedoms to their users. It gives developers the freedom to create an aggregate product without also releasing their own code under the GPL, allowing them to pursue a business model tha…
"However, as indicated by vast market success" It's far too common that the person who assigns value to software and that signs the check is not the same person who puts it to work.
You're arguing that users don't believe the current situation is a fair trade, and would rather enter into a GPL quodque pro quo agreement if they were not restricted by the purchasing department?
Well -- I for one am happy with the licensing status of Mac OS X, and think I've received a perfectly fair trade.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
"However, as indicated by vast market success" It's far too common that the person who assigns value to software and that signs the check is not the same person who puts it to work.
You're arguing that users don't believe the current situation is a fair trade, and would rather enter into a GPL quodque pro quo agreement if they were not restricted by the purchasing department? Well -- I for one am happy with the licensing status of Mac OS X, and think I've received a perfectly fair trade.
Many users would be happier with technologies different from the ones endorsed by their managers (frequently after vendor-paid trips to vendor-sponsored events) and anointed as corporate standards that one should not break if one really likes his/her job.
My wife had to build an intranet on top of Sharepoint because a PHB said so. I have to read my e-mails off an Exchange server because corporate IT finds it nice. Far too many servers are Red Hat while I would prefer Debian (I am a fan of APT). Perhaps you have to make your presentations on PowerPoint for Mac, even knowing how much better they would look with Keynote. Life's not perfect.
And, while I love the NeXT side of OSX, I find the Unix side far too early 90's for my taste ;-)
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
He owns the brand, and controls the direction of the product bearing that brand.
Which means nothing really. If Monty announces that MarisDB is "the real MySQL" everyone who's ever heard of MySQL will go with him. Everyone else probably doesn't even know what database is under their company's data. All Sun got for their $1Bn was the domain name mysql.com...
I really don't think that's true. The "average" MySQL user has never heard of Monty -- I used MySQL for more than a decade before I heard the name of its inventor.
MySQL's battle for the last decade has mostly been getting enough brand recognition that corporate environments consider it a serious, practical alternative. The brand IS the value of MySQL: it is a promise that the technology has been worked on by serious people, and will continue to be patched and improved for the forseeable future (however realistic that promise turns out to be).
Starting again with a new brand is possible, but by definition it would be a new company which would have to prove its chops and its longevity all over again.
Losing the MySQL brand would be a serious setback to MySQL adoption in corporate environments, and thereby a setback to the amount of money that gets invested in improving it. It is in the interests of all users of MySQL that the brand remain trusted.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
He owns the brand, and controls the direction of the product bearing that brand.
Which means nothing really. If Monty announces that MarisDB is "the real MySQL" everyone who's ever heard of MySQL will go with him. Everyone else probably doesn't even know what database is under their company's data. All Sun got for their $1Bn was the domain name mysql.com...
"All Sun got for their $1Bn was the domain name mysql.com..."
Which kind of bothers me because I really like Sun hardware. Every blunder Sun makes pushed SPARC closer to extinction.
I hope Oracle keeps making the Type 7 keyboards with Control where God wanted it to be. That's not too much to ask...
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much does Oracle stand to lose if MySQL doesn't die a slow death? Probably much more than a billion.
I don't really understand how that's the case. In 15 years as a professional DBA working with both Oracle and MySQL I have never found myself in the position of thinking, hmm, Oracle or MySQL for this project? It just doesn't really happen (no matter how much Monty would like to believe it does). I recently decided between MySQL and SQLite on a smaller project (SQLite won that one). I can see myself deciding between…
What if the Falcon engine comes to fruition?
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which means nothing really. If Monty announces that MarisDB is "the real MySQL" everyone who's ever heard of MySQL will go with him. Everyone else probably doesn't even know what database is under their company's data. All Sun got for their $1Bn was the domain name mysql.com...
I really don't think that's true. The "average" MySQL user has never heard of Monty -- I used MySQL for more than a decade before I heard the name of its inventor. MySQL's battle for the last decade has mostly been getting enough brand recognition that corporate environments consider it a serious, practical alternative. The brand IS the value of MySQL: it is a promise that the technology has been worked on by serious…
it is a promise that the technology has been worked on by serious people
All those people have quit Sun and work for Monty now...