A commenter says that no fork will be able to offer a dual license, and that a fork is only for the GPL portion of the license. Even so, what's the big deal there? Any sizable company can offer to sell a support contract for an open source license of the DB. What am I missing here?
Perl programmer Tim Bunce (DBI/DBD) has been sending mass emails to support this cause, and I didn't understand it either. There's some mumbling about how you can't really fork mysql but no clear explanation as to why. GPL is GPL, and the whole codebase is under GPL. You can do what you want. If they need to come up with a new name, because Oracle starts asserting a trademark issue, so be it. Mandriva survives, doesn…
Why Save MySQL Now?
11–20 of 51 posts
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#12I can guarantee that for the $1Bn Sun's shareholder's paid him for it - 14% of the total price Oracle is paying for all of Sun - Monty could buy MySQL back from Oracle and do with it as he pleased. So why doesn't he?
You have no way of knowing that. Ellison could view even $2 billion as a small price to pay for owning MySQL. MySQL has been a thorn in his side for years, and now he owns it.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#13I can guarantee that for the $1Bn Sun's shareholder's paid him for it - 14% of the total price Oracle is paying for all of Sun - Monty could buy MySQL back from Oracle and do with it as he pleased. So why doesn't he?
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have no way of knowing that. Ellison could view even $2 billion as a small price to pay for owning MySQL. MySQL has been a thorn in his side for years, and now he owns it.
Great. Ellison owns a piece of software anybody can fork and use as GPL!
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#15A commenter says that no fork will be able to offer a dual license, and that a fork is only for the GPL portion of the license. Even so, what's the big deal there? Any sizable company can offer to sell a support contract for an open source license of the DB. What am I missing here?
The "big deal" is that only two things provide a revenue stream around MySQL sufficient to support the heavy R&D costs associated with building a database product:
- The name ("MySQL")
- The copyright.
If you own the name, you can sell branded binaries and services. If you own the copyright, you can sell non-GPL licenses to commercial interests. Without these, creating a viable revenue stream is incredibly difficult.
I think this ties into this discussion, as well: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1028638 -- I Love the GPL (Except When it Applies to Me)
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#16A commenter says that no fork will be able to offer a dual license, and that a fork is only for the GPL portion of the license. Even so, what's the big deal there? Any sizable company can offer to sell a support contract for an open source license of the DB. What am I missing here?
because companies weren't just paying for support, some were paying for non-gpl'd versions of the code to integrate/resell in their products. only mysql ab (now sun, soon oracle) was able to sell those licenses. this is the same situation with asterisk. digium forces all users that contribute patches to hand over copyright so they can sell a private version of their open-source product to companies. whether this is f…
If that's what they need, perhaps to migrate their products to a BSD-licensed RDBMS like PostgreSQL. Or to a public-domain one like SQLite. Or a fully proprietary one. It's their software and, since, they have already licensed it as proprietary, their users were already robbed the freedoms GPL'ed MySQL would provide.
As it is now, those companies have licenses for specific versions. If they didn't get permanent unrevokable licenses and were happy with the cheaper ones they got, well... Phineas Barnum would be happy to use them as examples.
"whether this is fair is up for debate"
If handing over copyright is too expensive, companies are always free not to contribute or not to use Asterisk at all. They will, however, have to compete with other companies who do. Economics will dictate who wins.
"(and is partly why many users hate gpl software, preferring more "open" licenses like bsd/isc)"
The only freedom GPL denies a developer is to close up software that was once free. The only freedom the allegedly "more open" licenses give developers is to deny freedoms to their users. For the users (and software freedom is about them), those licenses give nothing.
But we are drifting from the original topic.
The topic is that MySQL is Oracle-proof and doesn't need saving the same way other GPL'ed products don't need saving. They are either good - and thus worthy of surviving - or bad - and thus will die natural deaths.
Many people have emotional attachment to their software. I must confess I am thinking and rethinking moving from Linux to OpenSolaris for much too long to explain it in strictly rational terms. I will miss it when Linux dies, but, by then, I expect GNU/HURD to run nicely on my 64-core ARM-based netbook. Or, at least, ZFS to be under GPLv3.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
because companies weren't just paying for support, some were paying for non-gpl'd versions of the code to integrate/resell in their products. only mysql ab (now sun, soon oracle) was able to sell those licenses. this is the same situation with asterisk. digium forces all users that contribute patches to hand over copyright so they can sell a private version of their open-source product to companies. whether this is f…
"some were paying for non-gpl'd versions of the code to integrate/resell in their products" If that's what they need, perhaps to migrate their products to a BSD-licensed RDBMS like PostgreSQL. Or to a public-domain one like SQLite. Or a fully proprietary one. It's their software and, since, they have already licensed it as proprietary, their users were already robbed the freedoms GPL'ed MySQL would provide. As it is…
You can't "close up" software that was free. The software remains free.
The only freedom the allegedly "more open" licenses give developers is to deny freedoms to their users.
It gives developers the freedom to create an aggregate product without also releasing their own code under the GPL, allowing them to pursue a business model that they feel will fund the ongoing R&D necessary to produce that product.
For the users (and software freedom is about them), those licenses give nothing.
If users do not feel that a product does not provide a fair trade, they are under no obligation to purchase or use it, and the original code remains to do with what they will. However, as indicated by vast market success, users do feel that these licenses and the products produced using them do provide something of value.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#18I can guarantee that for the $1Bn Sun's shareholder's paid him for it - 14% of the total price Oracle is paying for all of Sun - Monty could buy MySQL back from Oracle and do with it as he pleased. So why doesn't he?
How much does Oracle stand to lose if MySQL doesn't die a slow death? Probably much more than a billion.
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great. Ellison owns a piece of software anybody can fork and use as GPL!
He owns the brand, and controls the direction of the product bearing that brand.
All Sun got for their $1Bn was the domain name mysql.com...
Re: Why Save MySQL Now?
#20A commenter says that no fork will be able to offer a dual license, and that a fork is only for the GPL portion of the license. Even so, what's the big deal there? Any sizable company can offer to sell a support contract for an open source license of the DB. What am I missing here?
I'm firmly disagree with Monty's duplicity, but I'll try to shed some light on it. The "big deal" is that only two things provide a revenue stream around MySQL sufficient to support the heavy R&D costs associated with building a database product: - The name ("MySQL") - The copyright. If you own the name, you can sell branded binaries and services. If you own the copyright, you can sell non-GPL licenses to commercial…
Yes, and Monty knew that when he chose to structure MySQL the product that way. Everything is proceeding exactly as he foresaw and intended.