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Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

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Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#31

Post by facepalm »

belorn wrote: post #25

The reason that the EU cookie law broke down is that directly after the EU directive was issued, several lawyers from large companies changed their interpretation of an older 1995 directive that dictate how consent is given. The directive says that consent require " specific and informed indication ", but lawyers from very large companies decided that the act of continuing using a website was the same thing as giving…

Thank god, ehm, the lawyers: otherwise we would not just have annoying banners, every page would start with an blocking dialog. No thanks.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#32

Post by benihana »

blub wrote: post #22
Udo wrote: post #7

This whole thing is ridiculous. While adding these widgets to blocking filters seems like a workable short-term solution, the entire cookie notice scheme is unworkable in the long run. The problem is, this crap will stack up in the future, and none of it will ever get abolished. On some sites, I get a triple-stacked legalese warning banner, and I have to manually close all three of them. Since internet law will only…

Why block them? It's good that websites have to be more transparent with how they are tracking users. It is however inconvenient for the websites. They could always stop using privacy-invading ad networks and external services which track users and then they wouldn't have to show any message.

>They could always stop using privacy-invading ad networks and external services which track users and then they wouldn't have to show any message.

"if these companies would just invent and build a new infrastructure to pay the bills, they wouldn't need to present a nag."

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#33

Post by facepalm »

Udo wrote: post #7

This whole thing is ridiculous. While adding these widgets to blocking filters seems like a workable short-term solution, the entire cookie notice scheme is unworkable in the long run. The problem is, this crap will stack up in the future, and none of it will ever get abolished. On some sites, I get a triple-stacked legalese warning banner, and I have to manually close all three of them. Since internet law will only…

Well browsers could send an "allow cookies" header, like the "don't track" header?

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#34

Post by vruiz »

blub wrote: post #26
vruiz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming that law was necessary (debatable), the idiotic thing was asking millions of websites to do this, instead of automatically in a handful of browsers. Not to mention absurdities like the fact that you need cookies to remember that the user doesn't want cookies, or even worse: https://twitter.com/jgrahamc/status/633551359774691328

Perhaps something is deeply wrong with the way companies approach the internet if millions of them have to display a notice that they are tracking their users.

No, I can see that you are not familiar with the law, I don't blame you because nobody is, since it's incredibly vague about when applies and AFAIK nobody has yet been fined. There are hundreds of companies doing wrong things, no doubt. The "millions" are collateral damage.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#35

Post by Asbostos »

blub wrote: post #19
Kequc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cookies are integral to the operation of every modern website. They offer security in the form of features like csrf protection or maintaining login state between visits. There is sufficient protection for cookies in the form of encryption and a laundry list of further details which have been added over the years. There are far larger security related concerns on the web. The cookie warnings are on par with if you ha…

This law aims to protect users from being tracked across multiple websites. There are exceptions in place and most websites would not need to display any message, unless they are in fact helping track their users. If they include services like Google analytics they should absolutely display the message.

It almost sounds like the law is too weak. Despite all the cookie notices I've seen, I never knew they were only asking permission to track me across sites. If that's what the law is for, then perhaps the warnings need to be even more obtrusive to deter sites from doing such tracking.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#36

Post by baby »

gozo wrote: post #28
Udo wrote: post #7

This whole thing is ridiculous. While adding these widgets to blocking filters seems like a workable short-term solution, the entire cookie notice scheme is unworkable in the long run. The problem is, this crap will stack up in the future, and none of it will ever get abolished. On some sites, I get a triple-stacked legalese warning banner, and I have to manually close all three of them. Since internet law will only…

The "real" technical solution here is to standardize a modern authentication system separate from cookies and have things like "do not track" actually work. The industry has, seemingly deliberately, failed to do that. So the EU has rightfully argued from "first principle" that privacy and data protection is more important than the status quo in the industry.

> to standardize a modern authentication system separate from cookies

why? Then ads will use that "new" thing as well. Cookies are enough for authentication.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#37

Post by blub »

vruiz wrote: post #34
blub wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps something is deeply wrong with the way companies approach the internet if millions of them have to display a notice that they are tracking their users.

No, I can see that you are not familiar with the law, I don't blame you because nobody is, since it's incredibly vague about when applies and AFAIK nobody has yet been fined. There are hundreds of companies doing wrong things, no doubt. The "millions" are collateral damage.

I am basing my statements on http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm (the chapter EU legislation on cookies). According to this guide, the following cokies are exempt from consent: user-input (forms, shopping carts), authentication (for the session), user-centric security, multimedia player, ui customization, social network for logged in members.

Seems quite straightforward and fair.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#38

Post by dom96 »

mstade wrote: post #24
Udo wrote: post #7

This whole thing is ridiculous. While adding these widgets to blocking filters seems like a workable short-term solution, the entire cookie notice scheme is unworkable in the long run. The problem is, this crap will stack up in the future, and none of it will ever get abolished. On some sites, I get a triple-stacked legalese warning banner, and I have to manually close all three of them. Since internet law will only…

Frankly, the requirement of notice could (and should) be pushed on to user agents – not sites. For one, it would help standardize both the user experience of notices – and leave the UX of website specific notices alone – but also it would improve the current state of things where many (most?) sites in the EU simply don't care or know about the legislation. The last thing we need is more cruft sent across the wire.

Couldn't agree more with this. The fact that the cookie law is forced on websites is absolutely idiotic. The browsers know what cookies are being set.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#39

Post by blub »

benihana wrote: post #32
blub wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why block them? It's good that websites have to be more transparent with how they are tracking users. It is however inconvenient for the websites. They could always stop using privacy-invading ad networks and external services which track users and then they wouldn't have to show any message.

>They could always stop using privacy-invading ad networks and external services which track users and then they wouldn't have to show any message. "if these companies would just invent and build a new infrastructure to pay the bills, they wouldn't need to present a nag."

EU citizens are under no obligation to support business models that have a negative effect (be it small or large) on their lives, nor are they obliged to make it technically convenient for companies to conduct their business.

There are many business models which do not come with moral dilemmas and that do not fall under the incidence of this law. Data mining and tracking might be trendy, but it's not a free for all, there need to be rules and the privacy of users must be respected. If some companies are unable to do fulfill these basic and fair requirements, that is strictly their problem.

Re: Prebake: Block EU Cookie Notices with Adblock

#40

Post by gozo »

baby wrote: post #36
gozo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "real" technical solution here is to standardize a modern authentication system separate from cookies and have things like "do not track" actually work. The industry has, seemingly deliberately, failed to do that. So the EU has rightfully argued from "first principle" that privacy and data protection is more important than the status quo in the industry.

> to standardize a modern authentication system separate from cookies why? Then ads will use that "new" thing as well. Cookies are enough for authentication.

The point would be that you would have to authenticate before being tracked. Today disabling cookies will break login function of a lot of sites. I'm unfortunately short on time, but you should be able to find a discussion about this around HTTP/2.
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