Why we're leaving Heroku • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#71

Post by bdcravens » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 7:06 PM UTC

rip747 wrote: post #64

kasia66 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud 66 provides full stack container management as a service in production, that offers Heroku-like functionality on any cloud provider or on your own server, http://www.cloud66.com/ (Disclaimer: I work at Cloud 66)

Is it standard nowadays to charge customers for support? Checking out the pricing (and correct me if I'm wrong), does it really cost $5000/month to have 24/7 support? That seems crazy to me. Now granted I pay about $300/month for the VM I have with my hosting provider, but I can pick up a phone at any hour and talk to a tech when things go south. I really don't care how good a service is, I want to talk with a breath…

(We've been customers for well over a year, close to 18 months I think)

You do get support for no additional fee, but you can pay for additional access to support staff. That said, they've always been quite responsive to our requests, with a fairly short turnover time by email.

It is however customary in the industry to pay for additional levels of support:

https://aws.amazon.com/premiumsupport/ https://www.heroku.com/critical

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#72

Post by bdcravens » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 7:09 PM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #67

rip747 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it standard nowadays to charge customers for support? Checking out the pricing (and correct me if I'm wrong), does it really cost $5000/month to have 24/7 support? That seems crazy to me. Now granted I pay about $300/month for the VM I have with my hosting provider, but I can pick up a phone at any hour and talk to a tech when things go south. I really don't care how good a service is, I want to talk with a breath…

> $300/month for the VM High-availability, automatic failover, managed, with diamond-cut SSDs I hope? Who are you with? For that money you should just pick up a box.

When a typical developer or admin cost is $50 or so an hour, $300 isn't a material amount, and there are use cases where it's not just about whether a single VM less or more than the cost of a single physical server.

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#73

Post by skissane » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:42 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #62

skissane wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely the company can just go to the FBI/DHS/etc directly if they wish? IANAL, but if a company has information which it reasonably believes to be evidence of a crime, what court would find it illegal for them to volunteer it to the federal government?

No, they in the general case cannot.

What law would they be breaking? Criminal law? Contract law? Even if it were technically a crime to tell something to the federal government, I can't imagine the government would actually prosecute you for doing it (why would they act against their own interests?) And, if a term of a contract prevents you from providing the government with evidence of a crime, surely that contract term is void as contrary to public policy. And any state or local law which purports to prohibit revealing information to the federal government is surely to that extent unconstitutional.

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#74

Post by erikpukinskis » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 10:25 PM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #70

erikpukinskis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think it's great that you want to push for individual privacy, but I don't think everyone in the industry has a responsibility to push for what you want. Everyone gets to choose what they want to advocate for.

Working for a corporation does not relieve you of the basic human responsibility to stand against evil. The fact that many, even most, humans ignore this responsibility only makes it more important.

Every minute you're fighting for privacy is a minute you're not fighting the evil I choose to focus on, which trust me is a far greater evil than yours.

You see how it sounds?

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#75

Post by pkinsky » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 11:26 PM UTC

Retra wrote: post #44

pkinsky wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee, I'm glad the US government takes so much care to follow not just the letter but the spirit of the law.

You're absolutely right. Why don't we just throw every law in the trash because someone might not follow it.

Ok, so let's say you don't agree to participate and suddenly stop getting government contracts for some notionally unrelated reason. What do you do?

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#76

Post by PhasmaFelis » Thu, Sep 24, 2015, 3:02 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #74

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for a corporation does not relieve you of the basic human responsibility to stand against evil. The fact that many, even most, humans ignore this responsibility only makes it more important.

Every minute you're fighting for privacy is a minute you're not fighting the evil I choose to focus on, which trust me is a far greater evil than yours. You see how it sounds?

Personally, I'm not saying everyone must spend every minute resisting evil. I'm saying everyone is responsible for not actively encouraging evil, which is what Salesforce et. al. are doing. There's a difference between failing to volunteer at a rape crisis center vs. actually raping someone.*

*Obligatory internet disclaimer: This is a analogy.

Re: Why we're leaving Heroku

#77

Post by SteveLAnderson » Fri, Sep 25, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

http://www.salesforce.com/company/news-press/press-releases/...

“At Salesforce, trust is our number one value and nothing is more important to our company than the privacy of our customers' data,” said Burke Norton, chief legal officer, Salesforce. “Contrary to reports, Salesforce does not support CISA and has never supported CISA.”