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Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

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Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#221

Post by exstudent2 »

DrPizza wrote: post #218
exstudent2 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.

Journalists are allowed to have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased journalist. Even the mere selection of _which stories to write about_ is an expression of bias, as there is no universally agreed upon objective standard of newsworthiness. Having an agenda does not make me an unethical journalist. Nor does writing things that you do not like on an online message board. Try harder. Here's everything I've…

You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#222

Post by DanBC »

Karunamon wrote: post #220
DanBC wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I do it it's networking and growth hacking. When she does it she's a dirty whore, cheating on her partner and exploiting and manipulating men. (and whether actually did this or not is irrelevant, we're going to keep saying she did and supporting that with total bullshit).

By the way: HN Notify got to your snarky comment before you did. The links you gave were interesting, so thanks for that, but I don't appreciate your implication that I was "lying" because you misunderstand a conversation's thread. http://i.imgur.com/TLuTJRk.png Are you going to reply to the other post or not?

> Are you going to reply to the other post

No. I'm not going to waste my time with people who lie.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#223

Post by DanBC »

Karunamon wrote: post #131
DanBC wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I do it it's networking and growth hacking. When she does it she's a dirty whore, cheating on her partner and exploiting and manipulating men. (and whether actually did this or not is irrelevant, we're going to keep saying she did and supporting that with total bullshit).

If your definition of "networking and growth hacking" means writing positive coverage for people you are friends with and/or financially contribute to while not telling people that, your definitions are broken. It's not okay. It might even be against FTC rules. Full stop, end of story. By the way, why are we talking about whether if you do it is okay or not when just one post ago you were calling the (sourced, verifi…

This is an example of a gamergate supporter (you) continuing a pattern of harrassment (perpetuating the copiously debunked lies about Quinn). Repeating the libel is the harrassment.

I understand you don't see it that way.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#224

Post by DrPizza »

exstudent2 wrote: post #221
DrPizza wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalists are allowed to have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased journalist. Even the mere selection of _which stories to write about_ is an expression of bias, as there is no universally agreed upon objective standard of newsworthiness. Having an agenda does not make me an unethical journalist. Nor does writing things that you do not like on an online message board. Try harder. Here's everything I've…

You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.

> You're constantly

[citation needed]

I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months.

> on the front lines of this debate

[citation needed]

I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle.

> pushing for more leniency for journalists.

[citation needed]

I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call for removal of "opinion" from both news and reviews.

> You are anti-audience in that respect

Did you consider that perhaps gators are not my audience?

> and yes I consider that unethical.

Writing for different audiences is _unethical_? Do words even have meaning in your world?

> You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.

Did you never consider that your views do not in fact constitute the consensus opinion of my readership? If I were to lie to my readers and maintain a pro-gamergate persona, I daresay it would hurt my readers' trust in me far more than my current position.

I'm still waiting for you to list all the unethical things I have done. You know: stuff that, for example, demonstrates a conflict of interest or a deliberate misrepresentation of facts. Something that's an actual journalistic ethics issue. I mean, you were so very quick to claim that I was an unethical journalist. Can you not even substantiate the claim?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#225

Post by exstudent2 »

DrPizza wrote: post #224
exstudent2 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.

> You're constantly [citation needed] I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months. > on the front lines of this debate [citation needed] I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle. > pushing for more leniency for journalists. [citation needed] I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call fo…

You just said this:

> Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers,

But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k

He does admit wrongdoing. You're straight up saying he doesn't. How is that ethical?

> you idiots continue to bitch about "oh gosh someone in the games industry knows someone else"

That you find people's concern over undisclosed relationships in reporting something worthy of mockery is appalling and quite frankly all the evidence needed to show you're out to push an agenda that requires overlooking a very traditional staple of journalistic integrity.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#226

Post by DrPizza »

exstudent2 wrote: post #225
DrPizza wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're constantly [citation needed] I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months. > on the front lines of this debate [citation needed] I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle. > pushing for more leniency for journalists. [citation needed] I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call fo…

You just said this: > Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k He does admit wrongdoing. You're straight up saying he doesn't. How is that ethical? > you idiots continue to bitch about "…

> But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k

What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn? Oh right: nothing.

> That you find people's concern over undisclosed relationships in reporting something worthy of mockery is appalling and quite frankly all the evidence needed to show you're out to push an agenda that requires overlooking a very traditional staple of journalistic integrity.

That you find it remarkable or notable that people who write about games know people who make games shows that you have very little understanding of the trade press. "I know this person" is not a relationship that needs disclosure.

There's no clear consensus on things like Kickstarter, by the way. While investment would be a clear ethical breach, Kickstarter is--by law--not an investment. Kickstarter backers are not acquiring any kind of stake in the company. There's no clear journalistic rule that would, for example, prohibit backing Kickstarters but still permit preordering games (and I've never once seen a gator demand that game preorders be disclosed).

Similarly, the distinction between, for example, making payments through Patreon, subscribing to a game such as WoW, or buying a DLC season pass is quite subtle, and there are no universally agreed, widely established rules on what is and isn't acceptable. This is a matter primarily of personal taste, not hard-and-fast rules.

In any case, _none of this supports your claim that I am an unethical journalist_. I've linked you to a page that should (assuming our CMS is working correctly) list every single article I have written. Which of those pieces is unethical, and why?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#227

Post by dang »

exstudent2 wrote: post #217
DrPizza wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please enumerate all my unethical journalistic acts, thanks.

You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.

> and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum

Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, and your comments are generally breaking the guidelines about civility. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly.

(Many other commenters have been breaking the guidelines too in this thread, and I'm not posting this because I agree with any of them.)

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#228

Post by dang »

DrPizza wrote: post #214
exstudent2 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's Kotaku EIC Stephen Totilo admitting to Kotaku's ethical failures re: GamerGate. https://archive.is/4Tp9N#selection-7679.0-7679.603 He's downplaying it but the failures to disclose personal ties DID exist in many cases. He also references other ethical failings from Kotaku. None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. They regularly make references to pre-existing relationships now. Note that this i…

> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games j…

> But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry

Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, and your comments are generally breaking the site guidelines about civility. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly.

(Many other commenters have been breaking the guidelines too in this thread, and I'm not posting this because I agree with any of them.)

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#229

Post by brymaster »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #156
mushtifaha wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was referring to. Your statement reads like a religious dogma. There is no argument, no proof, no room for nuance. Just an axiom, which should be taken at face value and assimilated into one's set of beliefs. And this is something GG does very often. They build entire mythologies about the movement to paint the movement as some sort of a bogeyman. I think this is beneficial to gamergate. The opponents,…

> This is what I was referring to. Your statement reads like a religious dogma. There is no argument there, no proof, no room for nuance. Just an axiom, which should be taken at face value and assimilated into one's set of beliefs. No proof? http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_GamerGate#August_20... These links might be helpful to you. As with any Internet discussion, not every point may be immediately substanti…

>rationalwiki

Very ironic that you decided to link to that RationalWiki piece, actively edited by the notorious 'Ryulong' who was banned from Wikipedia largely in part by his bad behavior (rule-beaking, undoing edits, bias and unethical practices) on the GamerGate entry. (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ryulong%20banned)

Wow, I mean come on!

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#230

Post by cerberusss »

DrPizza wrote: post #226
exstudent2 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said this: > Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k He does admit wrongdoing. You're straight up saying he doesn't. How is that ethical? > you idiots continue to bitch about "…

> But action was required on Kotaku's behalf because they weren't acting ethically. Here's another Totilo statement about how Kotaku messed up: https://archive.is/fL71k What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn? Oh right: nothing. > That you find people's concern over undisclosed relationships in reporting something worthy of mockery is appalling and quite frankly all the evidence needed to show you're out to pus…

> What the fuck does that have to do with Quinn Why not keep it civil? I truly don't understand.
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