Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#151

Post by mintplant » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:35 PM UTC

exstudent2 wrote: post #135

icebraining wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, and this is not specific to GG, but I don't get why would one join a movement if one disapproves of how it got started. If one doesn’t want to be associated with assholes, maybe one shouldn't associate themselves with asshole-created groups.

A lot of people joined GG because there is/was no alternative for people who held views opposed to those in the mainstream. It's one of the only groups fighting for unmitigated free speech on the internet. It's made for some strange bedfellows but in the end it's an anti-censorship campaign (that happens to have identified the group pushing for censorship).

From what I've seen, they only seem to be fighting for free speech that agrees with their perspective. See, for example, the campaigns to convince advertisers to pull their ads from sites that publish articles they don't like.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#152

Post by mushtifaha » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #134

mushtifaha wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the thinly-disguised harassment campaign I am not convinced that repeating a lie a thousand times will make this claim the truth. The propaganda may have worked well back when gamergate was completely unknown to the general public, but we are past that, I think.

On the contrary, the claim is the truth, and the idea that gamergate is not a harassment campaign is a lie. The original creators of the movement explicitly stated that it was intended to be such, and that 'ethics in game journalism' is a cover story. Of course, most members of gamergate do not believe they are in a harassment campaign, but why would they? The leaders of the movement will indulge them and tell them w…

This is what I was referring to. Your statement reads like a religious dogma. There is no argument, no proof, no room for nuance. Just an axiom, which should be taken at face value and assimilated into one's set of beliefs. And this is something GG does very often. They build entire mythologies about the movement to paint the movement as some sort of a bogeyman. I think this is beneficial to gamergate. The opponents, with all their propaganda, make themselves appear ridiculous and work hard at discrediting themselves. Gamergaters don't even need to engage in advocacy. They just need to let the anti-GG keep being anti-GG.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#153

Post by dvdcxn » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:37 PM UTC

comrh wrote: post #147

dvdcxn wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have fallen into the same trap as both sides in taking the radicals behaviour as typical of the movement as a whole. Well done, you are why we cant have nice things.

Except for a long time it was the movement as a whole. The is why people don't take it seriously, because last year the group stood for picking apart of game dev's sex life.

You missed the bit where her sex life revealed serious examples of cronyism.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#154

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

thieving_magpie wrote: post #146

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who most influence gamergate, the people who gamergate listen to. They do exist. Gamergate may be decentralised, but like any campaign, it does have leaders.

I'm clearly asking for some names. You're avoiding the question. who are the "leaders of the movement"?

Well, one example would be Milo Yiannopoulos. A journalist with a murky past (screwing over staff working under him) and who, prior to joining gamergate, actively mocked video gamers.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#155

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

brador wrote: post #103

Karunamon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so considering that 4chan didn't accept donations, didn't have any form of user-generated revenue until the (very recent) 4chan pass thing, Poole has always maintained that the site was a money loser. Also, cheap to run? The bandwidth costs alone would be HUGE. Not sure why you think he has a motive to lie about this - and if he does, again, put forth some evidence rather than spurious accusations. Calling the…

You conveniently missed ad revenue. 4chan has around 650m pageviews a month. At $0.25/1000 that's a few million a year. And I didn't say he was lying, I said I don't believe him.

[deleted]

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#156

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:40 PM UTC

mushtifaha wrote: post #152

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the claim is the truth, and the idea that gamergate is not a harassment campaign is a lie. The original creators of the movement explicitly stated that it was intended to be such, and that 'ethics in game journalism' is a cover story. Of course, most members of gamergate do not believe they are in a harassment campaign, but why would they? The leaders of the movement will indulge them and tell them w…

This is what I was referring to. Your statement reads like a religious dogma. There is no argument, no proof, no room for nuance. Just an axiom, which should be taken at face value and assimilated into one's set of beliefs. And this is something GG does very often. They build entire mythologies about the movement to paint the movement as some sort of a bogeyman. I think this is beneficial to gamergate. The opponents,…

> This is what I was referring to. Your statement reads like a religious dogma. There is no argument there, no proof, no room for nuance. Just an axiom, which should be taken at face value and assimilated into one's set of beliefs.

No proof?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_GamerGate#August_20...

These links might be helpful to you.

As with any Internet discussion, not every point may be immediately substantiated. Your comments in this thread haven't been either.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#157

Post by chisleu » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

mintplant wrote: post #51

chisleu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my point. 4Chan has pretty heavy SJW influence right now.

Every time someone uses "SJW" seriously on HN, a puppy dies.

I don't see an alternative term available that expresses the same meaning. I don't use it as a pejorative intentionally, just as a term for people who believe things like minorities can't be racist.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#158

Post by surge » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:42 PM UTC

Vaskivo wrote: post #49

mda wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, could you think of some examples of the great ways it influenced the internet?

Not all of it was "great", but definitevely left their mark on the internet and in society: Of the top of my head: - The thousands of memes, from rickrolling to rage comics. - Dusty the cat - Project Chanology - Gamergate - The Fappening - Karen, the school bus monitor - Snakes on a Plane (movie), Cave Story (game) and many others became highly successfull after becoming viral in 4chan. - Risk of Rain (game), Engine…

I believe Minecraft also first gained initial popularity there or where it was initially exposed to a larger audience, back when it was still alpha.

4chan is where a lot of things took root or first came to be "before they were cool", and they might never have been cool or gone unnoticed on other communities. It was a catch all for the best and worst of what you could find on the Internet. It's a place where the worst and best of human behavior is laid bare, uncensored, and could be dealt with or discussed on equal terms and some of the most honest discourse (in terms of true opinions) took place no matter how ugly or uncomfortable the subject matter was. That has value, if nothing else to better understand how messed up society and humans are when they aren't being polite or fearful of consequences. It rids you of any naivety you might have once had, even if its not a place you want to spend any amount of time or participate. If nothing else, it gives the worst of those people a place to go instead of poisoning other online communities with their insanity.

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#159

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

mushtifaha wrote: post #44

robin_reala wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re partially right at least. It’s now a completely undisguised harassment campaign.

It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure. But I don't think that such strategy is going to pay off. You can't just yell harassment as means to abuse people into submission. Many have tried similar tactics in the past and it never works in the long run.

> It is being continuosly harassed by people who claim they are fighting harassment, that's for sure.

Harassed? Which members of gamergate have been forced out of their homes?

Re: Hiroyuki Nishimura, founder of 2channel, has taken ownership of 4chan

#160

Post by exstudent2 » Mon, Sep 21, 2015, 5:45 PM UTC

mintplant wrote: post #151

exstudent2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people joined GG because there is/was no alternative for people who held views opposed to those in the mainstream. It's one of the only groups fighting for unmitigated free speech on the internet. It's made for some strange bedfellows but in the end it's an anti-censorship campaign (that happens to have identified the group pushing for censorship).

From what I've seen, they only seem to be fighting for free speech that agrees with their perspective. See, for example, the campaigns to convince advertisers to pull their ads from sites that publish articles they don't like.

The campaigns themselves are the free speech.

Free speech != profitable speech. The journalists can say whatever they want. If they want to make a profit doing it selling to an audience they're simultaneously beating up, they'll have to deal with the antagonistic relationship they created.