How Norway Created Salmon Sushi • Hacker News Board

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#81

Post by rsync » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #64

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #58

There was actually a very sensible rule followed in China and Japan about eating raw fish. You only ate sea fish raw, while freshwater fish were always cooked. There's a good rationale behind this. Freshwater fish tend to carry parasites that can cross the species boundary between fish and human. Whereas, sea fish do not tend to carry such parasites. You can understand the reason for that based on natural selection.…

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this."

Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#82

Post by DanBC » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 9:35 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #81

pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this." Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

Here's the UK implementation: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-industry/fish-shellfish/fre...

I'm not sure if this archived page is still accurate: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20150624093026/htt...

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#83

Post by semi-extrinsic » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 9:59 PM UTC

pi-rat wrote: post #7

Visiting sushi places in Japan, they often have pictures of northern lights and Norwegian mountains telling customers they have fresh salmon shipped from Norway by air: http://www.eikeland.se/snap/salmon.jpg

I'm told that they fly cargo planes with salmon from Norway to Japan, unload salmon then fill the planes with electronics, fly to eastern Europe where the various brands have their continent-wide warehouses, unload electronics and then fly to Norway to load up with salmon again.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#84

Post by pvaldes » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 10:52 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #81

pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this." Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

I can not speak for all asiatic restaurant owners in London, Berlin or Paris, but most chefs specialized in serving raw fishes do not joke about this and avoid the problem using special ultra-freezers. This reduces the safety-time to several hours (It is known that Anisakis larvae can survive for about a week in a domestic freezer) and helps to keep the quality of the sashimi. Thus, when you hear 'fresh', you probably should decode this as 'ultra-frozen in fresh' as something totally natural.

The cut of sashimi in translucent fine lames is probably a way to detect and clean the fish of any visible parasites before to serve it. Exposing the beauty of the fish muscle in intrincated designs you are also showing the client that your product is of optimum quality and totally clean.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#85

Post by blue11 » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 11:14 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #81

pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this." Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

I am not sure about Europe, but that's the law in the US too (there are a few exceptions).

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#86

Post by hueving » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 11:31 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #81

pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this." Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

It's the same in the US. If a restaurant is claiming the fish is not frozen, they are breaking the law and eating the fish is significantly more dangerous.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#87

Post by pvaldes » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 11:48 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #83

pi-rat wrote: post #7

Visiting sushi places in Japan, they often have pictures of northern lights and Norwegian mountains telling customers they have fresh salmon shipped from Norway by air: http://www.eikeland.se/snap/salmon.jpg

I'm told that they fly cargo planes with salmon from Norway to Japan, unload salmon then fill the planes with electronics, fly to eastern Europe where the various brands have their continent-wide warehouses, unload electronics and then fly to Norway to load up with salmon again.

A very interesting connection with our laptops. And very logical also; a common trick when you export something is to assure to fill the wide containers with anything that you can buy cheap in the destiny country before to return home. Thus you optimize your transport costs or, like in this case, share it with other companies.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#88

Post by Laforet » Sun, Sep 20, 2015, 1:59 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #81

pvaldes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is because Diphyllobothriasis, cestode larvaes from freshwater fishes that can be very dangerous for humans; but the fish metazoan parasite that send more sushi lovers to the hospital is marine in fact. Anisakiasis by roundworm larvae in raw fish or squid normally is not a big problem but is painful, and can lead to serious health issues sometimes. Any competent japanese chef will know how to deal with it. European l…

"European law obliges to restaurants to frozen all fish destined to be served as sushi just for this." Really ? All fish served as sushi in Europe has been previously frozen ?

Many types of fish used for sushi in Japan have been frozen at some point because commercial trawlers spend weeks if not months at sea, and the catch has to be frozen or left to spoil.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#89

Post by malnourish » Sun, Sep 20, 2015, 3:08 AM UTC

MrJagil wrote: post #4

As always when sushi is mentioned on HN, here is a link to the fine documentary Jiro Dreams of Sushi: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/ And Tampopo should be in the same vain, supposedly very good, fiction though: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092048

Tampopo and The Funeral are both incredible films by Itami, who was a master. Excellent satirist. The Funeral is also one of the "comfiest" movies I have ever seen.

Re: How Norway Created Salmon Sushi

#90

Post by jpatokal » Sun, Sep 20, 2015, 11:38 AM UTC

klunger wrote: post #49

jpatokal wrote: post #17

To this day, the salmon in Japanese sushi restaurants is always labeled サーモン "saamon", which is known to be imported and is OK to eat raw; and never 鮭 "s(h)ake", which is (usually) local and always salted and cooked first -- even though ''shake'' as a term covers all types of salmons.

I lived there for two years and clearly remember it being labelled as 鮭 (while painstakingly learning the words and characters too for different common foods as well). Granted, this was about 10 years ago, so maybe it has changed?

In a sushi restaurant? Of course there are lots of 鮭 dishes in izakayas and such, but I've never seen any in a sushi restaurant.