Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#71

Post by mahranch » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 7:24 PM UTC

scribu wrote: post #64

copsarebastards wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I think my point was obvious, but if you want to be pedantic, yes, I should have said "Japan doesn't have to invest much money in security". Yes, Japan does have the fifth largest defense budget in the world, but when you consider that the US defense budget it more than the defense budgets of the next 10 spenders combined, it's not really that much for such a large economy. Also worth noting, the US maintains s…

Thanks. I agree with your larger point, but wanted to clarify this detail, because I've seen people around the web saying that Japan actually has no security forces whatsoever.

To clarify your point, they don't. They have a self-defense force. They lack any serious offensive power since they focus on mostly defensive armaments.

There are also pretty big differences between Japan's SDF and a modern military. Only scraping the surface here, but members of the SDF can leave at any time, for any reason since it's a purely volunteer position. This weakens their military. They are afraid of being too hard on solidiers because if they are, they'll leave. This means you have an army of weak soliders who may not have the proper skills or training that an army like the U.S or China has.

This is why they need to be allowed to have a military. A country should be able to defend itself and the strongest defense, is a powerful and potent offense.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#72

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 7:24 PM UTC

ableal wrote: post #41

Animats wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of the above are true. China is getting more aggressive about control of the oceans near, and not so near, China. China has a territorial dispute with Japan over the islands south of Kyushu and northeast of Taiwan. China is also claiming some islands further south, in the South China Sea, but that disagreement is with Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan, and Vietnam. China's military parade last week was v…

> Japan did invade China during WWII. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War Started well before (1937) and ended a month later, to be precise.

[deleted]

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 7:36 PM UTC

jonyt wrote: post #54

rtpg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the debates for it have been going on for weeks. They announced the vote at the beginning of the week. Concretely, nothing could have prevented this outcome, because the Prime Minister's party has such a huge majority. There have been massive protests for a while now too, but that didn't seem to sway things as much. A silver lining is that there seems to be a renewed interest in the constitution itself, It is a produ…

It wasn't colonialism. Japan was occupied as the result of losing their own colonial war. The US was trying to prevent them from starting another one in the future.

It was written before we realized that we needed a stronger Japan in Asia after the Korean War I think.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#74

Post by copsarebastards » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

mahranch wrote: post #71

scribu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I agree with your larger point, but wanted to clarify this detail, because I've seen people around the web saying that Japan actually has no security forces whatsoever.

To clarify your point, they don't. They have a self-defense force. They lack any serious offensive power since they focus on mostly defensive armaments. There are also pretty big differences between Japan's SDF and a modern military. Only scraping the surface here, but members of the SDF can leave at any time, for any reason since it's a purely volunteer position. This weakens their military. They are afraid of being…

> A country should be able to defend itself and the strongest defense, is a powerful and potent offense.

Ugh. Thousands of Americans died in September 11, which is the obvious result of American military action in the Middle East, and thousands more died in the following wars.

You can't just go around killing people and assume that they're not going to attack you back. The best defense is a good foreign policy that avoids conflict in the first place.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#75

Post by nklas » Sun, Sep 20, 2015, 12:03 AM UTC

copsarebastards wrote: post #74

mahranch wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify your point, they don't. They have a self-defense force. They lack any serious offensive power since they focus on mostly defensive armaments. There are also pretty big differences between Japan's SDF and a modern military. Only scraping the surface here, but members of the SDF can leave at any time, for any reason since it's a purely volunteer position. This weakens their military. They are afraid of being…

> A country should be able to defend itself and the strongest defense, is a powerful and potent offense. Ugh. Thousands of Americans died in September 11, which is the obvious result of American military action in the Middle East, and thousands more died in the following wars. You can't just go around killing people and assume that they're not going to attack you back. The best defense is a good foreign policy that a…

Well said!

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#76

Post by ethbro » Sun, Sep 20, 2015, 2:33 AM UTC

copsarebastards wrote: post #74

mahranch wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify your point, they don't. They have a self-defense force. They lack any serious offensive power since they focus on mostly defensive armaments. There are also pretty big differences between Japan's SDF and a modern military. Only scraping the surface here, but members of the SDF can leave at any time, for any reason since it's a purely volunteer position. This weakens their military. They are afraid of being…

> A country should be able to defend itself and the strongest defense, is a powerful and potent offense. Ugh. Thousands of Americans died in September 11, which is the obvious result of American military action in the Middle East, and thousands more died in the following wars. You can't just go around killing people and assume that they're not going to attack you back. The best defense is a good foreign policy that a…

> The best defense is a good foreign policy that avoids conflict in the first place.

Like some kind of hypothetical agreement with Iran?

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#77

Post by copsarebastards » Tue, Sep 22, 2015, 6:03 PM UTC

ethbro wrote: post #76

copsarebastards wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A country should be able to defend itself and the strongest defense, is a powerful and potent offense. Ugh. Thousands of Americans died in September 11, which is the obvious result of American military action in the Middle East, and thousands more died in the following wars. You can't just go around killing people and assume that they're not going to attack you back. The best defense is a good foreign policy that a…

> The best defense is a good foreign policy that avoids conflict in the first place. Like some kind of hypothetical agreement with Iran?

Yes. Keep in mind that currently anti-Western hostility in Iran are a direct result of American imperialism during the Cold War. The Iran nuclear deal framework wouldn't be necessary if the US hadn't tried to prevent democracy in Iran in the 1970s.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#78

Post by 6t6t6 » Thu, Sep 24, 2015, 6:33 AM UTC

eplanit wrote: post #68

thomasfoster96 wrote: post #23

It's interesting to see how countries are reinterpreting laws to 'expand' the legal boundaries of conflict. Essentially, Japan now interprets 'self-defense' to no longer just mean defending the country when under attack, but to also include assisting allies in foreign countries. This sort of the same legal basis most countries are using to bomb targets in Syria (and Japan will probably use it too) - Iraq has asked th…

The political pressure and logical interests of self-defense are not surprising: one example being that a Japanese citizen was beheaded by ISIS earlier this year[1]. After such a shocking event, it seems very reasonable for the Japanese government to recognize the absurdity how of they are/were legally limited in their ability to respond. [1] http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.640063

This law is about controlling oil wells in the middle east. Not about protecting a war otaku that went to play the soldier in Siria.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#79

Post by ethbro » Fri, Sep 25, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

copsarebastards wrote: post #77

ethbro wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best defense is a good foreign policy that avoids conflict in the first place. Like some kind of hypothetical agreement with Iran?

Yes. Keep in mind that currently anti-Western hostility in Iran are a direct result of American imperialism during the Cold War. The Iran nuclear deal framework wouldn't be necessary if the US hadn't tried to prevent democracy in Iran in the 1970s.

This is likely true, however there are a lot of strings if you pull on anything associated with the Cold War. Even without leaning on domino theory and assuming that Iran was better with a democratically elected government, I don't think it's conclusive to say that "If the US hadn't been involved in Iran, the world as a whole would have been a better place." I think Poland, Hungary, and a lot of Eastern Europe are probably happier without the Soviet Union?

As a friend in Jordan said, sometimes democracy isn't the best first step. And I'd argue that both Atatürk and Nasser played pretty close to the line as well.