Live data from Hacker News

Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

nytimes.com

61–70 of 79 posts

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's buying the F35 from the US and also recently started its own fighter jet development program, so whatever their capabilities currently are, they're increasing.

The F35 is a heap of junk for which the US is using all it's "allies" to fund and carry the burden. At least we now all have diminished capabilities not just the US. Win Win.

(citation needed) Really, several citations at least considering how broad and blanketing that statement is.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#62

It's really ironic that the US, which literally wrote Japan's pacifist constitution essentially as the ultimate smackdown (not only did we beat you, but now you can never go to war ever again), is the one pushing to change it.

Our incentives have changed. At the time, the US was afraid of Japan (and justifiably so). But US military presence in Japan for the last half-century has meant that the Japan doesn't have to invest any money in security: they have instead invested that money in becoming one of the strongest economies in the world. And that has happened, to a large extent, at the expense of US taxpayers. The interdependence of our ec…

> US military presence in Japan for the last half-century has meant that the Japan doesn't have to invest any money in security

Wikipedia seems to disagree with you [1]:

> In 1976, then Prime Minister Miki Takeo announced defense spending should be maintained within 1% of Japan's gross domestic product (GDP), a ceiling that was observed until 1986. As of 2005, Japan's military budget was maintained at about 3% of the national budget; about half is spent on personnel costs, while the rest is for weapons programs, maintenance and operating costs. As of 2013, Japan currently has the fifth largest defense budget in the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces#Budg...

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our incentives have changed. At the time, the US was afraid of Japan (and justifiably so). But US military presence in Japan for the last half-century has meant that the Japan doesn't have to invest any money in security: they have instead invested that money in becoming one of the strongest economies in the world. And that has happened, to a large extent, at the expense of US taxpayers. The interdependence of our ec…

> US military presence in Japan for the last half-century has meant that the Japan doesn't have to invest any money in security Wikipedia seems to disagree with you [1]: > In 1976, then Prime Minister Miki Takeo announced defense spending should be maintained within 1% of Japan's gross domestic product (GDP), a ceiling that was observed until 1986. As of 2005, Japan's military budget was maintained at about 3% of the…

Okay, I think my point was obvious, but if you want to be pedantic, yes, I should have said "Japan doesn't have to invest much money in security".

Yes, Japan does have the fifth largest defense budget in the world, but when you consider that the US defense budget it more than the defense budgets of the next 10 spenders combined, it's not really that much for such a large economy.

Also worth noting, the US maintains significant military presence in most of the world's top military-spending countries. For obvious reasons, China and Russia have very little military US military presence, but Saudi Arabia, the UK, France, Japan, Germany, and South Korea all have significant US military presence on their soil.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US military presence in Japan for the last half-century has meant that the Japan doesn't have to invest any money in security Wikipedia seems to disagree with you [1]: > In 1976, then Prime Minister Miki Takeo announced defense spending should be maintained within 1% of Japan's gross domestic product (GDP), a ceiling that was observed until 1986. As of 2005, Japan's military budget was maintained at about 3% of the…

Okay, I think my point was obvious, but if you want to be pedantic, yes, I should have said "Japan doesn't have to invest much money in security". Yes, Japan does have the fifth largest defense budget in the world, but when you consider that the US defense budget it more than the defense budgets of the next 10 spenders combined, it's not really that much for such a large economy. Also worth noting, the US maintains s…

Thanks. I agree with your larger point, but wanted to clarify this detail, because I've seen people around the web saying that Japan actually has no security forces whatsoever.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#65
post #38

I wonder if they would like to buy any Typhoons, A400Ms or aircraft carriers.

> I wonder if they would like to buy any ... aircraft carriers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo-class_helicopter_destroy...

We've a couple that could theoretically operate fixed-wing aircraft, but no aircraft to go on them, and we can't afford them anyway, so...

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#66
post #5
post #3

This is a good move and will help the US and its allies balance China.

It could also very easily spin out of control and increase instability in Asia.

Japan's military is disadvantaged by a lack of personnel with combat experience. The change permits japanese soldiers to participate as an equal partner with its allies, and to remedy its experience defecit.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's buying the F35 from the US and also recently started its own fighter jet development program, so whatever their capabilities currently are, they're increasing.

The F35 is a heap of junk for which the US is using all it's "allies" to fund and carry the burden. At least we now all have diminished capabilities not just the US. Win Win.

The F-35 JSF has problems, and I'll be the first to be critical, but it is not a "heap of junk." It's a tremendously capable fifth-generation air superiority fighter that can also serve in CAS, bomber, and ELINT roles.

Its tremendous versatility is one of the main reasons it became so expensive and difficult to develop: jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#68

It's interesting to see how countries are reinterpreting laws to 'expand' the legal boundaries of conflict. Essentially, Japan now interprets 'self-defense' to no longer just mean defending the country when under attack, but to also include assisting allies in foreign countries. This sort of the same legal basis most countries are using to bomb targets in Syria (and Japan will probably use it too) - Iraq has asked th…

The political pressure and logical interests of self-defense are not surprising: one example being that a Japanese citizen was beheaded by ISIS earlier this year[1]. After such a shocking event, it seems very reasonable for the Japanese government to recognize the absurdity how of they are/were legally limited in their ability to respond.

[1] http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.640063

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#69

It's really ironic that the US, which literally wrote Japan's pacifist constitution essentially as the ultimate smackdown (not only did we beat you, but now you can never go to war ever again), is the one pushing to change it.

While some people believe that, it's worth noting that the participants claimed that the pacifist clause was inserted by MacArthur on the request of the Japanese Prime Minister.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_9_of_the_Japanese_Co...

Re: Japan’s Parliament Approves Overseas Combat Role for Military

#70
post #27

>The opposition’s obstructionist tactics delayed Mr. Abe’s victory until after 2 a.m., but could not prevent it. Apparently the manner in which the vote was made was "trick play" like, quickly executed without warning, and caught opposition party members by surprise. I wasn't aware that such tactics were available.

And before that, they gave up on amending the constitution and settled for reinterpreting it because that would be less work. They basically hacked this into law. Why so desperate? And would the Obama administration really endorse this? Because that is what many "experts" are speculating. Basically no one knows, but it all just non-consensually moves forward. Isn't there a word for this? Tyranny? Definitely not democ…

> And would the Obama administration really endorse this?

The U.S government has been trying to get Japan to amend its constitution since the late 60s. So yeah, I believe every administration up to this point would have endorsed this. The U.S government has been the one pushing Japan to militarize. They've been pushing for decades.

Post reply on HN