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Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

nytimes.com

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Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#211

Post by j-b »

meatysnapper wrote: post #138
izacus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, since here in EU the VAG group cars (Seat, Škoda, VW, Audi) are widely perceived as the most reliable and there's a huge amount of people buying nothing else.

Perhaps it's where they are built. I assume most US-bound VWs are from Mexico or US proper due to NAFTA and auto-import regulations.

I had a 2009 Wolfsburg Jetta 2.0t, assembled in Mexico I believe, that was a complete maintenance nightmare. I got out of it before the timing belt needed to be replaced and purchased a Toyota instead.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#212

Post by ibarrajo »

Havoc wrote: post #119
dayjah wrote: post #26

When I last bought a VW (2008) I was concerned due to a clunking noise after first starting it up and driving a few miles; I called the VW service dept and they explained that there was a compressor which captured exhaust fumes and released them at a lower rate for the first few miles of each journey -- to help them meet EPA emissions standards. I was assured there was nothing to worry about. While this is a differen…

>the emissions guidelines were being gamed by manufacturers Not necessarily gamed - the measuring just needs to factor it in. e.g. (Rather anecdotal) I know there are cars programmed to capture emissions in a filter & then automatically clear that when the car reaches high speeds (freeway). Makes sense in a way...you'd rather have the car expelling the crap on the freeway than city center. That mechanism is apparentl…

I believe you mean the EVAP system where excess gasoline vapor is condensed in a charcoal canister, this canister is purged generally in a freeway with a high engine vacuum going on. the highest vacuum is achieved when you engine brake

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#213

Post by selimthegrim »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #102
Hermel wrote: post #96

If these controllers were open source, drivers could decide on their engine settings themselves. That could be an interestimg strategy for VW as it would move responsibility to the drivers.

It's my understanding that there's plenty of aftermarket opportunities available for this kind of tuning.

VW denies you warranty repairs if you do this tuning if the damage can be traced to ECU modifications. Class action lawsuit in 3...2...1...

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#214

Post by _yosefk »

yason wrote: post #126
cmurf wrote: post #108

I wonder if the primary control code should be open source. That's without respect to right to modify or reuse the code, just whether it should be mandatory that it be published. And it'd exclude things like user space apps and UI/UX stuff. But any of the code that controls or affects steering, acceleration, ignition, braking, and lighting, really seems like it's not OK to just consider it a black box, subject to DMC…

If it's just published you can't be sure it's the same code that runs in the car. You should be able to compile the code and inject your locally compiled firmware to the ECU if you want to verify that the car engine is doing what it's supposed to be doing.

If you can do it, chances are an attacker can, too. I prefer hardware that won't load unsigned software in such places.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#215

Post by durin42 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #204
ryandrake wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucratic intransigence is a really upbeat way of putting it. How about corruption through regulatory capture? Big auto needs to sell their over-priced parts. Why let people buy a $150 after-market part, when you can just call up CARB and have them make people buy equivalent $1,100 factory or OEM parts? Wow, judging by the down-votes, people don't seem to realize how expensive CARB deliberately makes it to own an…

> Wow, judging by the down-votes, people don't seem to realize how expensive CARB deliberately makes it to own an older car, regardless of how clean its emissions are. I upvoted you even though I disagree with you for what its worth. You're an edge case. Most people with older cars no longer maintain their emissions controls. The older the car, the more likely it is that its polluting. Is it fair? Not at all. You're…

Cars built since MY 1996 are self-diagnosing for most emissions problems. Mandating factory-original parts simply means the auto manufacturers won a major political battle, not that anything effective is being done.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#216

Post by balls187 »

United857 wrote: post #29

The tech industry has been guilty of this in the past as well. Example: Nvidia and AMD drivers detected if you were running certain benchmarks or games, and would cheat by downgrading various rendering settings that had minimal effect visually. Often this was a simple check to get the process's executable name; simply renaming the .exe would get you significantly different perf results.

MSFT was accused of gaming javascript benchmarks with IE9.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#217

Post by Raphmedia »

1ris wrote: post #166
JorgeGT wrote: post #5

I research for the auto industry and this was very well known by the authorities. Fixed test cycles like the New European Driving Cycle https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Ne... were easy to detect, and easy to optimize against. That's why coming regulations introduce more realistic cycles like WLTC https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/WL... and real road tests, where partic…

I hope this gets fixed, although I don't believe it. I care about the noise emissions. AFAIK they are measured on a real road, but only up to 50 km/h and in a ridiculous narrow test. Harley Davidson and other are known to optimise for this test with movable parts in the exhaust pipes so these get much louder when the bikes goes faster than 50 Km/h.

Well, as much as a cheat it is, I'm happy that those bikes can go quiet on slow (city) streets but as loud as possible on the highway (increase security and swag).

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#218

Post by durin42 »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #106
swang wrote: post #97

I love the look/feel/drive of a VW, but I will never again own one. My parents bought a 2002 VW which I mostly drove and the maintenance costs were through the roof. There have been at least 3-4 recall notices, one time while parked on an incline, it rained and flooded the back of the car with water. When I went to VW, they said that I had to manually clean out some drainage underneath the car. How the hell am I goin…

On the newer ones the high pressure fuel pump disintegrates and poops metal bits into the engine, requiring the engine to be replaced. That's why VW recently extended the warranty against the HPFP to, if I recall correctly, 100k miles. Here's the 400-page-long forum thread on that defect: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323

Note that the pump in question has been redesigned multiple times by Bosch. Hardware bugs are a thing, even in cars.

Re: Volkswagen Is Ordered to Recall Nearly 500k Vehicles Over Emissions Software

#219

Post by rozap »

mjt0229 wrote: post #200
joshrotenberg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a 2013 Golf TDI and was thinking about this as well. If it isn't a safety related recall, I'm not sure how you get people to comply aside from some other action related to, say, their next years registration (i.e. if your VIN doesn't have this fix applied, you can't reregister your car). Not sure if that's a thing, though. I'd personally plan to take my car in "real soon now" to get the fix.

I have a 2014 Jetta TDI, and the thing I'm wondering is what the cost of the fix will be - not to me in dollars, since it would be covered by the recall - but rather, will this affect my fuel economy or performance in some other way? I'm just trying to figure out why they don't have the cars running in this lower-emissions mode all the time.

The performance and/or lifetime of the engine will likely be compromised to meet the standards.
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