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China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

economist.com

31–40 of 76 posts

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#31
post #26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the article represents a bit of wishful thinking; but the fact that this is the most up-voted comment is also quite revealing.

Why the strong anti-China sentiment on HN? I don't get it.

The sentiment is mostly anti Chinese Government, not the nation / people.

China's Government has been infamous for lying about economic statistics for decades. Their unemployment rate has hardly changed since the 1980s. For a while - 2001 to 2009 - their real growth was so dramatic it didn't matter much that they were lying about everything. Now that the tide is going out on the world's second largest economy, it matters in a big way.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#32
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling the truth? Until Aug,2015 about 276 lawyers who help Chinese people protecting their human right have been arrested. But China still claim it is a country under the rule of law. Another example is that recently an official media of China claim that China is the most democratic country in the world. CCP is evil, never trust it!!!!!

Edward Snowden is being hunted by the US. Are you for him or against him? If you're for him, then you'd have to stand against the US government. One could argue that due to the spying and the prosecution of Edward Snowden, that the US gov't is also lost legitimacy.

That someone posts something negative about a given country, doesn't mean posting something negative about the US therefore refutes or otherwise alters it.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#33
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling the truth? Until Aug,2015 about 276 lawyers who help Chinese people protecting their human right have been arrested. But China still claim it is a country under the rule of law. Another example is that recently an official media of China claim that China is the most democratic country in the world. CCP is evil, never trust it!!!!!

From where do you get the ridiculous claim that human rights and the rule of law are preconditions for economic prosperity? There are many unfree yet rich countries, i.e. Singapore.

It's a pre-condition nearly across the board.

Name the long list of countries with low freedom and high economic prosperity - the list is in fact extraordinarily short.

Singapore isn't a low freedom country, it's a mid freedom country. It has a level of freedom comparable to Mexico or Turkey. Low freedom nations: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Myanmar, North Korea, Sudan etc.

Off the top of my head for relatively free + prosperous: Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, UK, US, Japan, South Korea, France, Denmark, Netherlands, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Iceland, Belgium.

Now match that list with relatively unfree nations that are prosperous. Outside of a select few petro States, you're almost entirely out of luck. That list of prosperous + free states is so far beyond the low freedom list across the board on quality of life and economic metrics, there is no meaningful comparison to be had.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#34
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the strong anti-China sentiment on HN? I don't get it.

Probably a combination of inherent cynicism and lack of credibility in Chinese financial statistics.

The particular source here is not the Chinese government but the magazine the Economist and the consulting firm McKinsey. Both are very reputable.

You can go to China or some of the surrounding countries (SE Asia, Japan, Australia) and see for yourself. Or look at the sales reports from Apple. The massively growing Chinese middle class is quite a real thing.

Yet the reaction here is of scepticism, disbelief, denial.

I don't understand that.

No other topic (Europe, US, Africa, Middle-east ...) is met with same.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#35

When I was young I remember the world used to be beholden to the demand of the american consumer. What they wanted drove the export of entire economical regions in Asia. Now it seems the giant in the room that everyone needs to accommodate is the Chinese consumer.

The US consumer market today is three to four times larger than the Chinese consumer market. So no, the roles have not switched yet, not even close.

The US economy growing at 2-2.5% is growing nearly as fast as China's economy today (given their non-fake rate of growth is more likely in the low single digits of around 3% to 4%).

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#37
post #26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the article represents a bit of wishful thinking; but the fact that this is the most up-voted comment is also quite revealing.

Why the strong anti-China sentiment on HN? I don't get it.

"Why the strong anti-China sentiment on HN? I don't get it.

That's quite odd, I notice the opposite. I notice many pro China pieces here on hackernews. Whether it's talking about their green energy, growing economy, financial markets or what have you.

Perhaps you've fallen victim to what's known as hostile media effect? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect)

It says that you tend to notice more negative media & chatter about something you care about or have an interest in, regardless of reality.

And I think this might actually be the case here because the original commentor above wasn't "anti-China" at all. He was stating a contrary viewpoint. Being realistic doesn't mean something is automatically "anti". If there was an article about the U.S middle class growing this year, and someone posted a comment which disputed that, it wouldn't be an "Anti-American" comment.

Speaking of, I see more "what's with the anti-China comments?" more than I notice actual anti-China comments. In fact, I almost never see truly anti-China comments.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#38

When I was young I remember the world used to be beholden to the demand of the american consumer. What they wanted drove the export of entire economical regions in Asia. Now it seems the giant in the room that everyone needs to accommodate is the Chinese consumer.

The US consumer market today is three to four times larger than the Chinese consumer market. So no, the roles have not switched yet, not even close. The US economy growing at 2-2.5% is growing nearly as fast as China's economy today (given their non-fake rate of growth is more likely in the low single digits of around 3% to 4%).

And how much of the US consumer market is tradable goods?

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#39
post #26
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the article represents a bit of wishful thinking; but the fact that this is the most up-voted comment is also quite revealing.

Why the strong anti-China sentiment on HN? I don't get it.

This sentiment is wide-spread in US. I think it is a combination of systematic propaganda and ignorance of general public.

Re: China's booming middle class is creating world's most dynamic consumer market

#40
Everybody wants to have a binary outcome for China: China, is it an all dominating inevitability? Or a massive fustercluck? A or B!

And that's silly. China will grow tremendously over the next 30 years, and that growth will be filled with turmoil, booms and busts. Things are only black and white in comic books.

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