Current math teacher looking to teach computer science. Very excited to see this!
New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
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Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#42When I was 8 my public school had a gifted program that I was fortunate enough to have participated in. They attempted to teach us BASIC on Apple IIe's, or rather the teacher (who had little or no understanding of programming) followed through a lesson book and told us what to do. We were creating still color images, pixel by pixel, and I thought it was the most boring, pointless, and stupid exercise we did that year…
That's interesting. My school in Indiana had a gifted program that taught us the rudiments of Basic programming in almost the exact same way. We used to take home grid paper, draw in the pixels where we wanted them, and then write out the code to display them on the screen. Thus began my life-long love affair with making computers do what I tell them to do. As a 4th grader, even just the exposure of typing words and…
My school in Kansas had the exact thing too. Oddly enough they still used them ~5 years ago when I checked last.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#43> “I’ve literally had a conversation with a student where she’s saying, ‘I really don’t like math,’ as she’s walking me through a JavaScript function to have an interactive photo gallery on a web page that she had also built from scratch,” Mr. Samuels-Kalow said. “I looked at her and said, ‘This is harder math than what you’re doing in your math class.’ ”
And being a baseball pitcher requires lots of physics knowledge. If they actually want to teach computer science, then they'll be teaching some math. But this will probably turn into a practical programming curriculum. Maybe we need to accept that vocational schools are actually what our country needs. And a vocational programming course just doesn't carry the same stigma as other fields.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#44It's a good start but I think it better to focus on getting kids interesting in general math and sciences (of which computer science is a part). The next generation of entrepreneurs need to focus on solving bigger problems and not just focused on making apps. Of course all of it depends on how we can get kids more engaged and interested in learning (whatever subject that moves them).
I think what's being proposed here is both. I know it varies by country but atleast here in the US, kids learn the core subjects and then have a couple options for elective courses (music, basketball, etc). The objective of the mayor is to get CS into that elective list at all schools.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#45When I was 8 my public school had a gifted program that I was fortunate enough to have participated in. They attempted to teach us BASIC on Apple IIe's, or rather the teacher (who had little or no understanding of programming) followed through a lesson book and told us what to do. We were creating still color images, pixel by pixel, and I thought it was the most boring, pointless, and stupid exercise we did that year…
Man, I absolutely LOVED pixel by pixel creation. We mapped it out on a piece of paper with the grids drawn in, and then we coded it in BASIC on Apple IIe's showing how the grid in physical space was translated to code. I thought it was amazing on how we could connect the dots.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#46I imagine most of us programming now will be dead by the time (if at all) programming reaches some kind of universal acceptance; think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg. 20 years ago, learning programming wasn't as important because the technology just wasn't there to make it a good return on investment. But the value…
I think there's a fundamental difference between programing and literacy. Written language is a medium whereas programs are tools.
Programming seems more similar to car mechanics to me. When the car was first introduced, everybody who owned one knew exactly how it worked and how to fix it. Partly because they were simpler and partly because the early adopter were just more interested. Over time, as the complexity and ubiquity of the car has grown, the general population knows how to operate a car but not how to fix it (save for some basic things here and there).
Similarly with computers. The increasingly abstract operating systems, UIs, and even languages have created stratifications of knowledge across the whole stack (IT, software devs, compiler writers, CEs, etc) . Most people using a computer do not know how it works anymore, just like with cars.
I think it's great that schools have to offer computer science because it's a great subject that young people can really take off with since writing software costs so little compared to other hobbies. But it would be silly to force people to learn to code. As much as computers are becoming the most integral things in our lives, it's just not a skill that everybody needs to have.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#47> “I’ve literally had a conversation with a student where she’s saying, ‘I really don’t like math,’ as she’s walking me through a JavaScript function to have an interactive photo gallery on a web page that she had also built from scratch,” Mr. Samuels-Kalow said. “I looked at her and said, ‘This is harder math than what you’re doing in your math class.’ ” And being a baseball pitcher requires lots of physics knowledg…
> Maybe we need to accept that vocational schools are actually what our country needs.
The success of dev bootcamps would seem to indicate they are what's needed. I have mixed feelings here.
> But this will probably turn into a practical programming curriculum.
I would argue that's what it should be if the pathway is to get the student to major in CS (or related). Most kids need to get excited before they get interested. If the hook is practicable programming (a la jquery photo gallery) in HS, then the catch becomes learning the linear algebra that is behind moving a picture from one spot to another.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#48I admire the sentiment but I have to believe that at any scale someone qualified to teach CS would be doing something a bit more lucrative than teaching public school. Altruism is a beautiful thing, and something I wish I had more of, but let's face it: it's easier to demand this than to actually deliver it. I imagine that when our industry has the next culling, public interest in CS will wane as usual until the next…
It would be great if we had more people like Woz in the world. Though he didn't teach in public schools until after making truckloads of cash.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#49>“The difficulty is getting enough teachers who are trained in it, and trained well enough to make it a good introduction to computer science,” said Barbara Ericson, the director of computing outreach at Georgia Tech’s College of Computing. “And if you are well-trained in computer science, you can make a lot more money in industry than teaching.” Seems to be the real problem here. What kind of negative effect might r…
Yep, this is the central problem and I'm disappointed the city isn't taking any steps in offering incentives to potential teachers. The hard truth is there's a huge opportunity-cost for a professional programmer to step into a ~$50k role. On a broader scale, what needs to happen is a TFA like organization for programmers that works with companies and source their employees for 1-2 year tours of duty. This org would t…
I think it depends, will the teachers need a degree to teach kids?
I can see someone who dropped or didn't go to college, but worked professionally for at least 4-6 years in different technical roles would probably take the ~$50k as long as they can have flexibility create their own lesson plans and don't have to teach to some fizz buzz test on pen and paper (part of society's tendency to drive things to the LCD)… might be a breath of fresh air from their typical corporate environments, at least for a couple years.
Do I think something like this will happen, probably not.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that so? I always figured it's worse to think you know something when you don't than to not know something and know you don't.
On the day to day level I'd say certain subjects might be more applicable to this sentiment than others. For instance, sexual education where the results can be life changing. But as for computer science, like regular science, it will inspire a few kids who go on to learn their follies and produce work in the field and everyone else will either trudge through it or drop it and never have it affect their daily life in…
> On the day to day level I'd say certain subjects might be more applicable to this sentiment than others. For instance, sexual education where the results can be life changing.
I'd argue acquiring skills that could take one out of poverty as pretty life changing.
> But as for computer science, like regular science, it will inspire a few kids who go on to learn their follies and produce work in the field and everyone else will either trudge through it or drop it and never have it affect their daily life in any manner so it doesn't particularly matter and is probably better to have those extra inspired children in society.
It's worth trying for the sake of the kids who do go on to make a difference. And even for the ones who decide not to pursue programming as a profession, it is a net benefit for them to know on a high level how a computer operates.
Regarding privacy, 100% agree. This could be a great sub component to a computer literacy course.