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New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

nytimes.com

31–40 of 83 posts

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#31
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I admire the sentiment but I have to believe that at any scale someone qualified to teach CS would be doing something a bit more lucrative than teaching public school. Altruism is a beautiful thing, and something I wish I had more of, but let's face it: it's easier to demand this than to actually deliver it. I imagine that when our industry has the next culling, public interest in CS will wane as usual until the next…

To me it is less about teaching computer science than teaching computer literacy. You learned physics or history in high school but that wasn't to make you a scientist or an historian.

I agree, also a big benefit of having CS in schools is just in getting kids exposed to it. Would be nice if they named it something a little more friendly too, as I'm sure Conputer Science scares some people off.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#32
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negative effect would be kids with a poor understanding of CS, which is still a step up from kids with no understanding of CS.

Is that so? I always figured it's worse to think you know something when you don't than to not know something and know you don't.

On the day to day level I'd say certain subjects might be more applicable to this sentiment than others. For instance, sexual education where the results can be life changing.

But as for computer science, like regular science, it will inspire a few kids who go on to learn their follies and produce work in the field and everyone else will either trudge through it or drop it and never have it affect their daily life in any manner so it doesn't particularly matter and is probably better to have those extra inspired children in society.

That being said, a course on the things that will actually effect most every childs life such as what are those TOS things you click away near constantly, where are the privacy settings in facebook and what are the different levels of privacy and what can you do in abusive or threatening situations, how often does personal data get stolen, how to store confidential material in a way minimize potential vectors for attack, etc. That'd be an absolutely useful course and would be best if taught well (as opposed to abstinence only education to continue my thought streams from above).

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#33
post #24

When I was 8 my public school had a gifted program that I was fortunate enough to have participated in. They attempted to teach us BASIC on Apple IIe's, or rather the teacher (who had little or no understanding of programming) followed through a lesson book and told us what to do. We were creating still color images, pixel by pixel, and I thought it was the most boring, pointless, and stupid exercise we did that year…

By that logic, they shouldn't teach math or english either.

(EDIT: maybe just math is the really good example here)

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#34
post #24

When I was 8 my public school had a gifted program that I was fortunate enough to have participated in. They attempted to teach us BASIC on Apple IIe's, or rather the teacher (who had little or no understanding of programming) followed through a lesson book and told us what to do. We were creating still color images, pixel by pixel, and I thought it was the most boring, pointless, and stupid exercise we did that year…

That's interesting. My school in Indiana had a gifted program that taught us the rudiments of Basic programming in almost the exact same way. We used to take home grid paper, draw in the pixels where we wanted them, and then write out the code to display them on the screen.

Thus began my life-long love affair with making computers do what I tell them to do. As a 4th grader, even just the exposure of typing words and having graphics show up on the screen was enough to let me know that this was something I would love.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#35

* Getting a little exposure to it is wonderful and valuable for all. But I believe that being good at computer science requires having some skill at a type of abstract thinking that many people, even otherwise really intelligent people, don't possess. If this ever becomes mandatory for all students, I believe that it will be a recipe for a lot of wasted time and frustration. * If it ever becomes mandatory, I also won…

> But I believe that being good at computer science requires having some skill at a type of abstract thinking that many people, even otherwise really intelligent people, don't possess.

So don't try at all? I don't follow.

> If this ever becomes mandatory for all students, I believe that it will be a recipe for a lot of wasted time and frustration.

I agree, kids need to self-select into it. Making it mandatory would be a mistake.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#36
It's a good start but I think it better to focus on getting kids interesting in general math and sciences (of which computer science is a part). The next generation of entrepreneurs need to focus on solving bigger problems and not just focused on making apps. Of course all of it depends on how we can get kids more engaged and interested in learning (whatever subject that moves them).

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#37
I had a class in C++ in 10th grade and an advanced class in C++ in 11th grade. It clued me into the fact that I was pretty good at building things (I played with legos a lot as a child) with software.

Fast forward 18+ years, and I'm a successful software engineer at a leading financial firm. Yup, this is a great idea.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#38
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point. More and more of the job of programming will be handed over to machines. Meaning that the work will become easier and easier and the skills required will change as time passes. The other issue is the amount of time required to do anything useful with the skill. One you learn how to read you can read books quickly. If you learn how to code, it'll still take you 6 hours at least to pro…

If you learn how to code, it'll still take you 6 hours at least to produce anything that would be even moderately useful. What? No way. I crank out extremely useful shell scripts in less than 5 minutes all the time. You don't have to use an IDE, compiler and some heavyweight framework just to be a programmer. Cobbling together a quick shell or Python script can let you do TONS of tasks that would be extraordinarily t…

We have user manuals and documentation for this. One need not devote a public school curriculum to it.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#39

The original title "De Blasio to Announce 10-Year Deadline to Offer Computer Science to All Students" is a better headline. Of note in the article, "Computer science will not become a graduation requirement, and middle and high schools may choose to offer it only as an elective." This is quite different than the HN modified title.

I thought about this too. The current HN title is basically the title used for this article on the NYT homepage. Prepending "New York Mayor" clarifies the significance of this "De Blasio" fellow.

Both titles have merit, both titles have flaws. Granted, in the shorter title, it's unclear that the "requirement" is of the school to offer it, not of the students to take it. In the longer title, who cares that it hasn't been formally announced yet, and it's unclear upon whom the deadline is placed.

Can't please 'em all.

Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools

#40
I've taught programming on a volunteer basis to high school kids on behalf of a non-profit in NYC for the past two years. [0]

Rough thoughts:

* This is great news. I'm not the biggest fan of DeBlasio but this is a step in the right direction. There are too many bright and talented kids who never get exposed to computers or the field of programming. Getting to these kids and showing them that they're capable of manipulating the machines they use everyday is huge.

* There needs to be more effort put toward sourcing qualified teachers. I talked about this in more detail in another comment in this thread but a TFA equivalent might be a good idea.

* I'm pleased this is not a mandate to teach all kids programming. I've seen kids in my classroom who are there because they want to be with their friends. There needs to be a small amount of organic interest on the student's part.

* What will the curriculum be? Is it going to be AP CS which has serious issues around it and over-emphasizes theory over practice? I've found that---especially with high school kids---it needs to be fun and have immediate feedback involved (ideally visual).

Sidenote - if you're a programmer who lives in NYC and wants to make an impact now, consider volunteering for ScriptEd (https://scripted.org/).

[0] - http://dopeboy.github.io/teaching-code/

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