New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
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Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#2I imagine most of us programming now will be dead by the time (if at all) programming reaches some kind of universal acceptance; think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg.
20 years ago, learning programming wasn't as important because the technology just wasn't there to make it a good return on investment. But the value of reading and writing was also relatively minimal when it cost a fortune just to make a single copy of a book. If programming is how we turn human thought into machine-understandable commands and subroutines, and more and more of our work is delegated to machines...it's hard to imagine the long-term argument against learning programming.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#3I imagine most of us programming now will be dead by the time (if at all) programming reaches some kind of universal acceptance; think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg. 20 years ago, learning programming wasn't as important because the technology just wasn't there to make it a good return on investment. But the value…
> think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg.
I think that you are underestimating this. It took so long for reading and writing to become common skills because there had to be a social shift for more people to stop farming and get an education. Shift from one type of education to another is much simpler.
These days, you'd have a hard time finding parents who would be opposed to their kid learning programming instead of just about anything else.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#4I wonder what impact there will be in places that will require the availability of CS classes for students.
Who's going to teach, and what will be expected- a credential, a CS degree? Programs that have a shortage of qualified teachers, e.g. special education in California, have some streamlined process, but it still requires a credential.
What will the CS-skilled teachers get paid- the same as others? What material will they use? Hopefully good digital content will help students with teachers of all quality levels be exposed to good lectures and material.
Will universities see even larger increases in CS class demand?
Will poorer students join the middle class with skills gained through programs like this?
Large companies will be so happy when they get a huge increase in their applicant pools, especially more overall women/non-whites/non-Asians, for good pr/stats. And with an increased supply, a decline in price they'll have to pay for simpler/lower-level work. This could have a knock-on effect up the chain over time.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#5>“The difficulty is getting enough teachers who are trained in it, and trained well enough to make it a good introduction to computer science,” said Barbara Ericson, the director of computing outreach at Georgia Tech’s College of Computing. “And if you are well-trained in computer science, you can make a lot more money in industry than teaching.”
Seems to be the real problem here. What kind of negative effect might result from a bunch of unqualified high school teachers teaching CS poorly? Is some exposure better than none regardless of teaching quality?
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#6>“The difficulty is getting enough teachers who are trained in it, and trained well enough to make it a good introduction to computer science,” said Barbara Ericson, the director of computing outreach at Georgia Tech’s College of Computing. “And if you are well-trained in computer science, you can make a lot more money in industry than teaching.” Seems to be the real problem here. What kind of negative effect might r…
Yep. I'd rather have a MOOC-esque course where you can be certain the quality of eduction will permeate to the areas where quality education is scarce.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#7It's a noble initiative but I can't help but wonder if some other discipline will be the need-to-know one in a decade's time.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#8I imagine most of us programming now will be dead by the time (if at all) programming reaches some kind of universal acceptance; think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg. 20 years ago, learning programming wasn't as important because the technology just wasn't there to make it a good return on investment. But the value…
> think of how long it took for literacy to become universally important, even though reading and writing was done centuries before Gutenberg. I think that you are underestimating this. It took so long for reading and writing to become common skills because there had to be a social shift for more people to stop farming and get an education. Shift from one type of education to another is much simpler. These days, you'…
I think you're missing the point.
More and more of the job of programming will be handed over to machines. Meaning that the work will become easier and easier and the skills required will change as time passes.
The other issue is the amount of time required to do anything useful with the skill. One you learn how to read you can read books quickly.
If you learn how to code, it'll still take you 6 hours at least to produce anything that would be even moderately useful. If you try to use computers to optimize everything, you'll waste more time on the "optimization."
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#9>“The difficulty is getting enough teachers who are trained in it, and trained well enough to make it a good introduction to computer science,” said Barbara Ericson, the director of computing outreach at Georgia Tech’s College of Computing. “And if you are well-trained in computer science, you can make a lot more money in industry than teaching.” Seems to be the real problem here. What kind of negative effect might r…
>What kind of negative effect might result from a bunch of unqualified high school teachers teaching CS poorly? Is some exposure better than none regardless of teaching quality?
Is this problem similar enough to math that we can draw on data about mathematics education in schools? You can make a lot more money in industry with a math degree than you can teaching math to grade schoolers.
Certainly, we hear tons of stories about unqualified math and science teachers, and all the harm they do to a desire to learn math, but I'm sure some students get exposure to math that wouldn't normally have much desire to immerse themselves in it.
Re: New York Mayor De Blasio to Require Computer Science in Schools
#10* Getting a little exposure to it is wonderful and valuable for all. But I believe that being good at computer science requires having some skill at a type of abstract thinking that many people, even otherwise really intelligent people, don't possess. If this ever becomes mandatory for all students, I believe that it will be a recipe for a lot of wasted time and frustration.
* If it ever becomes mandatory, I also wonder if this could also be a recipe for really hampering kids who are actually interested and talented in this field. You'll have a bunch of untrained teachers trying to corral a group of kids, the majority of which won't be interested in the subject matter. That will end up with dumbed down classes so the majority don't feel uncomfortable and the talented folks also being frustrated at being slowed down and made to do a bunch of busy work.