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Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

theguardian.com

81–90 of 98 posts

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, 49 countries of the almost 200 on the planet have Inter-Library loans. Seems it may be about on-par with how many countries / populations are without internet access. However, if we were to measure how much of the 49 countries' population truly had reasonable access to a library (within reasonable distance of their home) versus the total population who has access to the internet, I think we'd probably se…

"I think we'd probably see that the internet is a far more sustainable, cheaper medium through which to transfer information." Absolutely true. Yet not that relevant. Data transfer cost isn't a major factor. The journals in my fields are all electronic. They no longer have paper distributions. As a result, the library no longer needs to store a physical copy, and people can retrieve a copy from their office instead o…

I'm definitely not a fan of DRM, but mentioned it since some people are concerned about it.

I think, from the little I have read about this (with regard to the issues we've discussed here), academics in general is kind of screwed up given the power structures in place.

This might sound like a broad generalization, and perhaps counter-intuitive, but I think for academic institutions to optimize themselves, they need to be thinking about how to re-arrange the incentive structure to align with incentives that drive a professor to write books and not with incentive structure of the markets. For example I think within the realm of academics it makes total sense to move toward a "pay for the person, not the product" model.

With electronic distribution of the media, you get almost zero-cost of production and distribution (except of course for the time the author spends writing the book). This theoretically allows the industry to figure out how to cut the middle men and move those savings to the "talent" instead of finding more ways to bureaucratize the system further, eating away at the salaries of those who are producing the material in the first place. However, given the power structure my hunch is without an "(r)evolution" within those industries professors will continue to get a fraction of what they deserve.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is absolutely not "no book". Academic books can do extremely well as ebooks. I'm cofounder of Leanpub, and some of our bestselling books ( https://leanpub.com/bookstore/earnings_in_last_7_days/all/al... ) are academic books about data science written by professors. This includes our #1 book this week ( https://leanpub.com/artofdatascience ). These books have free minimum prices, $15 or so suggested pr…

Of the 30 books on the front page of your bestselling list, the closest things to an 'academic book' I see are all texts designed to accompany Coursera courses. Those aren't academic books, those are introductory text books.

I should have been more precise: yes, they are introductory textbooks which accompany courses. I was defining academic as "it's a textbook of any level" not "it's graduate level only".

Leanpub has also been used to publish work based on dissertations (which is as academic as it gets), and those works obviously have far fewer sales.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#83
post #3

Academics spend years writing books nobody will buy. That's practically the definition of academic writing. They go into incredible amount of depths for a very, very niche audience: other academics interested in, e.g., the experience of women in Japanese detective novels of the 19th century. (n.b. Actually a book, assuming I am remembering all the details correctly. An advisor spent years on it.) This is exactly the…

> Academics spend years writing books nobody will buy.

And always will. My favorite example: http://www.npr.org/2012/04/16/150723840/for-japanese-linguis... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8275064).

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is absolutely not "no book". Academic books can do extremely well as ebooks. I'm cofounder of Leanpub, and some of our bestselling books ( https://leanpub.com/bookstore/earnings_in_last_7_days/all/al... ) are academic books about data science written by professors. This includes our #1 book this week ( https://leanpub.com/artofdatascience ). These books have free minimum prices, $15 or so suggested pr…

I think Leanpub has a ways to go before it can be useful for academic writing in my field (mathematics and theoretical computer science). My personal experience: I've tried using Leanpub and found issues with the way it handles mathematics. For example, the last time I checked (maybe around June) the TeX support in their Markdown was not developed enough to handle aligned equations, which is a big sticking point for…

You're correct that we're more expensive per transaction than Gumroad, which is an excellent service. Now, for some books, the amount earned above the minimum price is more than enough to make up the difference: our price sliders work really well to earn extra money for authors. The Leanpub vs. Gumroad question is actually a really interesting one; there are other considerations on both sides. (Gumroad is what I recommend for authors who don't find Leanpub a good fit. I know that authors like Nathan Barry make a killing using their own sites for the marketing and Gumroad for the selling.)

You're also correct that one of the main points of Leanpub is the one-click "make all the formats and sell them" approach. We do offer PDF upload for authors who find Leanpub's workflow preferable to more DIY sites like Gumroad.

Specifically, in terms of LaTeX support: we do support LaTeX math, but you're correct that there are some limitations. I'm not sure if the work we're doing on Markua (https://leanpub.com/markua) will help with this or not. I think that it will help with some of it (making equations into figures and referencing them from other places), but not others (probably the alignment isn't good enough). I'd really appreciate it if you could contact me with specifics if you want...

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#85
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is absolutely not "no book". Academic books can do extremely well as ebooks. I'm cofounder of Leanpub, and some of our bestselling books ( https://leanpub.com/bookstore/earnings_in_last_7_days/all/al... ) are academic books about data science written by professors. This includes our #1 book this week ( https://leanpub.com/artofdatascience ). These books have free minimum prices, $15 or so suggested pr…

Data science is not a niche academic field by any means. It's a high-growth employment sector with probably tens of thousands of practitioners interested.

Fair point!

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#86
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think we'd probably see that the internet is a far more sustainable, cheaper medium through which to transfer information." Absolutely true. Yet not that relevant. Data transfer cost isn't a major factor. The journals in my fields are all electronic. They no longer have paper distributions. As a result, the library no longer needs to store a physical copy, and people can retrieve a copy from their office instead o…

I'm definitely not a fan of DRM, but mentioned it since some people are concerned about it. I think, from the little I have read about this (with regard to the issues we've discussed here), academics in general is kind of screwed up given the power structures in place. This might sound like a broad generalization, and perhaps counter-intuitive, but I think for academic institutions to optimize themselves, they need t…

As I am not an academic but rather an independent researcher working in industry, I have little useful to say about the academic power structure or its future.

To get back to why I joined this thread, do you accept that your scenario of having to visit a state university library in person to read someone's "magnum opus" in book form is unlikely enough that it is more fanciful than meaningful?

As you are also not an academic, I instead offer a better scenario. Many Masters and PhD dissertations are deposited in the univeristy library but otherwise unpublished, and even un-indexed. For some of those you may have to visit the library in person to see a copy or even learn that it exists.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#87
post #61
post #33

These may sound like stories of concern to academics alone. But the problem is this: much of the time that goes into writing these books is made possible through taxpayers’ money. And who buys these books? Well, university libraries – and they, too, are paid for by taxpayers. Meanwhile, the books are not available for taxpayers to read – unless they have a university library card. In the US, taxpayers are said to be…

"This is blatant dishonesty from The Guardian." Well, it is The Guardian...

And yet, the article has 200+ upvotes and the top-rated comment thread completely accepts the frame of the article and its assumptions.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#88
post #47
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, the original article doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. Anonymous source and no verifiable, relevant facts-- even facts that should be easy to obtain.

Perhaps the author of an editorial in a British newspaper is aware of the draconian libel laws in the UK, and doesn't want to name names to avoid a likely lawsuit?

Perhaps. I think it's equally likely the story is low-effort clickbait that's fooled over 200 readers at Hacker News.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#89
post #87
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is blatant dishonesty from The Guardian." Well, it is The Guardian...

And yet, the article has 200+ upvotes and the top-rated comment thread completely accepts the frame of the article and its assumptions.

They're just pandering to their reader demographics like most publications (have to) do, and sadly HN's demographic has shifted to overlap with that demographic the last few years. It's the circle of life, internet forum edition :) (plus this place is full of people with educational angst who try to make up for their insecurities by being very vocal about their opposition to formal education). Meh, plus que ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#90

And students are being hoodwinked into buying them. The books also often include minutiae which change from edition to edition, so you have to get the nth edition in order to take your class - because in physics, for instance, there are Q&A in the books which differ between editions. The main book we had to get was written by two of the lecturers, and was £300. It was so half-assedly bound that you had to cut the pag…

Did you complain to the university? Which university? Sounds like a low grade institution to me. When I studied physics at Exeter in the mid 70s there was a lively trade in second hand books and I don't think that any of the books specified that they had to be the absolutely latest edition. Nor did the faculty write a book and demand that we bought it; I think that might have caused a lot of trouble then but students…

Durham. Definitely not low grade - was top in the country for Physics while I was there.

Most tutors set work outside of books, but there were definitely a few who were rinsing students for all it was worth.

Edit: seems they've gone further down the textbook route - here's their justification on the matter - https://www.dur.ac.uk/physics/students/textbooks/

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