Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 98 posts

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#41

Post by dalke »

notahacker wrote: post #34
garbal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an academic I check out and buy super specialized books all the time. $150 is not too expensive if it can save me a few hours of work by summarizing an esoteric topic, which frequently is the case. The publisher doesn't matter, just the reputation of the author. This is not beach reading, it is an input to an industrial process.

It's weird, because HN is usually the first place to downvote people into oblivion for complaining about how outrageous it is that B2B App X costs $15 per month when the majority of software aimed at consumers now sells for 99 cents or is given away for free. B2B App X generally doesn't have the unique content or extremely niche audience of the hardback, heavily revised version of one's Phd thesis either.

Perhaps because HN readers think they can write equivalent B2B software in a weekend and monetize the result through ads, in-app purchases, and gamification, while they don't think they can write a book or good documentation that others would pay for?

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#42

Post by librvf »

patio11 wrote: post #16
jakobegger wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you drastically overestimate the quality of the books this article talks about. These publishers will publish any rubbish you give them just to profit from selling to librarians who do not understand enough of the subject matter to know they are being scammed. I've been contacted on Facebook by these scam publishers, inquiring if I'd like to publish some of my university essays. There are plenty of alternativ…

I don't think we disagree very much about the likely level of subject-specific due diligence these publishers will do. I think we disagree very much about the likely level of subject-specific due diligence done by any publisher on any title picked at random from a university library. Peer review is, like Santa, a story we tell to motivate little children; academics (particularly in the humanities) are their own QC de…

I don't think we disagree very much about the likely level of subject-specific due diligence these publishers will do

Which publishers? If this is a real problem, there might be real solutions but those won't be found if we are busy debating narratives without digging down into the details.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#43

Post by jordanpg »

I wonder how much of this is simply a function of the massive overpopulation of graduate programs and the growing need to fill out CVs with publications? I know that this has been happening for years in the form of obscure journals that no one reads or cares about.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#44

Post by jordanpg »

patio11 wrote: post #16
jakobegger wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you drastically overestimate the quality of the books this article talks about. These publishers will publish any rubbish you give them just to profit from selling to librarians who do not understand enough of the subject matter to know they are being scammed. I've been contacted on Facebook by these scam publishers, inquiring if I'd like to publish some of my university essays. There are plenty of alternativ…

I don't think we disagree very much about the likely level of subject-specific due diligence these publishers will do. I think we disagree very much about the likely level of subject-specific due diligence done by any publisher on any title picked at random from a university library. Peer review is, like Santa, a story we tell to motivate little children; academics (particularly in the humanities) are their own QC de…

I think it's pretty clear from context that the author is referring to junk scholarship, or something pretty close to it.

If a book really is written and then forgotten by the world, it was never a serious part of the discussion. And a discussion, however small, is what academia is.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#45

Post by dalke »

datashovel wrote: post #36
coliveira wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake here is that professors don't write for "every human in the world". They write specifically for a small number of people who are well versed in the research topic they work on. While it is possible that this information might be useful to others, this will usually happen as a consequence, not as the primary goal.

Yes, that is correct. But it's not to say that it's not what the professor would like. In the age of the internet (as is mentioned in the article) it seems pointless that in order for a specialist in my field to read my "magnum opus" you must fly out to some obscure state University and hope that (a) the University will allow them to check out the book being that they're not a member of that University, and (b) they…

There's no need to fly. Use Interlibrary Loan to get a copy of the book.

It's weird but true that it's often cheaper for me to make an ILL request through my local library than it is to get a copy from the publisher. The only difference is that ILL request may take a week or three to fulfill.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#46

Post by jimhefferon »

patio11 wrote: post #3

Academics spend years writing books nobody will buy. That's practically the definition of academic writing. They go into incredible amount of depths for a very, very niche audience: other academics interested in, e.g., the experience of women in Japanese detective novels of the 19th century. (n.b. Actually a book, assuming I am remembering all the details correctly. An advisor spent years on it.) This is exactly the…

> The alternative to these $150 books is not $7.50 books. It is "no book."

I disagree. One alternative, for instance, is online publication of a .pdf. These are available to anyone, regardless of location, time zone, or ability to pay.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#47

Post by dalke »

librvf wrote: post #37
harry8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't the author name the publisher? So librarians, unfamiliar with esoteric fields can put a black mark next to that publisher's name and only buy from that publisher if requested or approved by an academic in that field. Surely the reputation damage that should be inflicted would stop such practises if they exist . But we have a claim with no evidence at this point.

I agree, the original article doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. Anonymous source and no verifiable, relevant facts-- even facts that should be easy to obtain.

Perhaps the author of an editorial in a British newspaper is aware of the draconian libel laws in the UK, and doesn't want to name names to avoid a likely lawsuit?

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#48

Post by peterarmstrong »

patio11 wrote: post #3

Academics spend years writing books nobody will buy. That's practically the definition of academic writing. They go into incredible amount of depths for a very, very niche audience: other academics interested in, e.g., the experience of women in Japanese detective novels of the 19th century. (n.b. Actually a book, assuming I am remembering all the details correctly. An advisor spent years on it.) This is exactly the…

The alternative is absolutely not "no book". Academic books can do extremely well as ebooks.

I'm cofounder of Leanpub, and some of our bestselling books (https://leanpub.com/bookstore/earnings_in_last_7_days/all/al...) are academic books about data science written by professors. This includes our #1 book this week (https://leanpub.com/artofdatascience).

These books have free minimum prices, $15 or so suggested prices, and do very well for their authors -- both by royalties earned and by number of copies sold.

The key point here is that if you're typically earning $10 or more in royalties (yes, royalties) per paid book sale, then a few thousand book sales can add up to being meaningful, fast. And yes, this can even happen with academic books that have a free minimum price...

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#49

Post by Thriptic »

harry8 wrote: post #22
madaxe_again wrote: post #10

And students are being hoodwinked into buying them. The books also often include minutiae which change from edition to edition, so you have to get the nth edition in order to take your class - because in physics, for instance, there are Q&A in the books which differ between editions. The main book we had to get was written by two of the lecturers, and was £300. It was so half-assedly bound that you had to cut the pag…

name the book, author and publisher. If what you say is true they don't deserve protection.

It sounds like what they are referring to is a course reader published by their own university.

Re: Academics are being hoodwinked into writing books nobody can buy

#50

Post by datashovel »

dalke wrote: post #45
datashovel wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is correct. But it's not to say that it's not what the professor would like. In the age of the internet (as is mentioned in the article) it seems pointless that in order for a specialist in my field to read my "magnum opus" you must fly out to some obscure state University and hope that (a) the University will allow them to check out the book being that they're not a member of that University, and (b) they…

There's no need to fly. Use Interlibrary Loan to get a copy of the book. It's weird but true that it's often cheaper for me to make an ILL request through my local library than it is to get a copy from the publisher. The only difference is that ILL request may take a week or three to fulfill.

I'm assuming this works seamlessly with public libraries and international public libraries as well? Third world countries?
Post reply on HN