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A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#41

Post by moe »

leaveyou wrote: post #26
moe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angela Merkel publicly encouraged immigrants to come Bullshit.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/angela-merkel-visit-asylum-shelter-attacks The government has announced a relaxing of the Dublin agreement, under which refugees are supposed to be sent back to the country in which they entered the EU to apply for asylum. Many war refugees, particularly from Syria, were being sent back to Italy and Greece. Germany has now said it will process the majority of such claims. Merkel’…

The pair called for a unified EU-wide response including fair distribution of refugees across Europe.

We must pursue a European asylum, refugee and migration policy that is founded on the principle of solidarity and our shared values of humanity

I don't understand. Which of your quotes "encouraged immigrants to come"?

"There is no tolerance for those people who question the dignity of others, no tolerance for those who are not willing to help where legal and human help is required"

And what is wrong with this last quote in particular? Does it hit too close to your home?

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#42

Post by Mithaldu »

jpfr wrote: post #19
onli wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true. First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Financial social support is one of the problems currently with the immigrants: It is basically non-existant. No EU region has a lower median salary than this. Second, Immigrants are not guests, they are immigrants or fugitives, and possibly supposed to stay. Third, Germany demands nothing new from…

> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust. Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay without getting into the same debt spiral of Greece, etc. It's enough to survive, but not much more. > Financial social support is one of the problems currently with the immigrants: It is basically non-existant. No EU region has…

>> First, Germany has a problem with social support even for Germans, Hartz 4 is horribly low and injust.

>Hartz 4 (long-term unemplyment aid) is basically what the country can sustainably pay

Pretty much. The deal with Hartz 4 is that it is a basic income that applies to every adult (children get a special deal), period. Even if you're employed you can apply for it if a certain calculation of your income minus deductions doesn't make the Hartz 4 line. That is a lot of people.

Some people do have problems with it however since it's an average. As such, depending on where you are, it will be more or less affordable. In west germany it will be less affordable to love on it than in east germany. In city centers less so than on the fringes or in small communities. I have family members on Hartz 4 in the "poorest" (most economically weak, really) parts of germany and they live VERY comfortably.

Where you are determines how "just" you will feel it is.

What people generally don't see though is that Hartz 4 is a LOT more than you get in other countries. Germany for example does not have a homeless problem like some other places i see in the news sometimes. And while complaining about Hartz 4 being too low, they also simultaneously complain about taxes being too high.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#43

Post by 1337biz »

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

Some people would probably point at the fall of the Roman Empire as the most classic example of culture conflicts leading to deterioration.

http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/8-reasons-why-rome...

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#44

Post by babuskov »

Meanwhile, Hungary has finished building the wall and is now adding more soldiers to EU-Serbia border and blocking the central train station in Budapest to stop people from going further.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/22/migrants-hungar...

http://news.sky.com/story/1544753/migrants-spend-night-outsi...

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#45

Post by mahouse »

mineshaftgap wrote: post #39
joeyspn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aligned? That's why they won't allow us Europeans to vote NO to TTIP and they have to discuss and approve it in secrecy. The citizens of Europe are not aligned with anyone. We've had enough with two WW.

Holy fuck people get confused. Exactly how are Americans stopping you from voting? You don't think Europe and the US are aligned? Hate can be blinding. Has a there ever been even a single EU candidate that ran on an anti-US platform? If not why not?

Because you can't win an election without the blessing of the media, and guess who controls it.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#46

Post by scotty79 »

quonn wrote: post #15
scotty79 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he's right that social support for immigrants (and other jobless people in Germany) is higher than median (even average) salary in some regions of EU? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

Clearly almost all countries have far higher averages. Also, the immigrants have to live in Germany, where the cost of living is much higher than the parts of Europe with a low salary.

Median salary is lower than average. Also 400 euro + rent was mentioned. I believe that given this almost all of "new" EU countries have median salaries below German welfare check.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#47

Post by peterjancelis »

mahouse wrote: post #16
generic_user wrote: post #11

There is a coordinated media attempt across the EU to spin positive 'messaging' onto the refugee crisis. But make no mistake this is a total disaster for the refugees, member state Citizens and the EU bureaucracy. The EU has been exposed once again as an incompetent overreaching poorly though dangerously romantic mistake. Continuous failures of ECB policy, the collapse of Greece under the EURO, the PIGS in serious tr…

What I don't understand is why us Europeans have to pay for the adventurism of the NATO; I wish all the refugees moved to Israel and the US, to be honest. Once again Putin is right, and this uncovers how a permanent conflict at the arab world is in the interest of the NATO and the US/Israel-aligned world overall.

What I don't get is why being a war refugee entitles you to claim asylum in any country, even if you passed several peaceful countries in the process. It would make much more sense to have refugees claim asylum in neighboring countries, to maximize cultural coherence, ease a move back home once the country can rebuild, and to stop incentivizing people to risk their life going from a safe country to another safe country with more benefits.

If any war in the world will result in mass migration to just the richest countries with the most elaborate welfare states, then you'll just end up with fewer rich welfare states in the long run. Be careful what you wish for.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#48

Post by babuskov »

Asbostos wrote: post #37

Has there ever been a case where a country received too many refugees and its economy deteriorated as a consequence? People provide labor which is what causes economic growth. They're the most valuable thing a country can have if it's not flooded with oil or similar natural resources. Of course there may be a lag as skills don't match demand, but that'll close up over time.

Yes. During the recent civil wars in Balkans, Serbia received many refugees from ex-Yugoslavian republics at war and it had huge impact on the economy as unemployment and criminal rates rose significantly. It took about 17-18 years for economy to recover to pre-war years.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#49

Post by return0 »

peterjancelis wrote: post #47
mahouse wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is why us Europeans have to pay for the adventurism of the NATO; I wish all the refugees moved to Israel and the US, to be honest. Once again Putin is right, and this uncovers how a permanent conflict at the arab world is in the interest of the NATO and the US/Israel-aligned world overall.

What I don't get is why being a war refugee entitles you to claim asylum in any country, even if you passed several peaceful countries in the process. It would make much more sense to have refugees claim asylum in neighboring countries, to maximize cultural coherence, ease a move back home once the country can rebuild, and to stop incentivizing people to risk their life going from a safe country to another safe count…

The rich countries in the region are more interested in slave labor rather than desperate refugees. The refugees are making the rational choice here, i don't believe they are driven out of some greedy interest.

Re: A 22-year-old anti-Nazi song tops German charts again – to welcome refugees

#50

Post by cronjobber »

hwh wrote: post #22

To make it clear: that song is not really focused on welcoming refugees (though the band playing it really supports that cause, too). That song is very specifically targeted at pointing towards the haters and criticizing their hate.

The whole situation is extremely close to being a civil war.

The "haters" are ridicuously outgunned with the full power of both the media and the state arrayed against them, so they will lose. The imbalance serves to mask the nature of the conflict, makes it look unlike a classic civil war. Not enough carnage.

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