Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit • Hacker News Board

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#101

Post by Springtime » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:12 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #82

sandworm101 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the best source, but this is common knowledge in many circles: "In a squad of 10 men, on average fewer than three ever fired their weapons in combat. Day in, day out — it did not matter how long they had been soldiers, how many months of combat they had seen, or even that the enemy was about to overrun their position. This was what the highly regarded Brigadier General Samuel Lyman Atwood Marshall, better known a…

(playing the devil's advocate) You did note the issues with your sources, but another issue here is both seem to reference western societies, which are guilt[0] societies while asian cultures in general are shame[1] based. This can imply differences in individual morals in people in these cultures. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_society [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society

How does the intentional murder of innocents not cause public/societal shame though? The article mentions such murders have caused outrage, so while some may get off lightly in court it would surely bring shame to the person who committed the act.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#102

Post by jasonwatkinspdx » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:12 AM UTC

malkia wrote: post #24

znt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the book Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell. More info: http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-...

Thank you! Yes, I believe this was the original article, but I've never bothered to read the book. Maybe I should! Edit: From the last comment found this article - which goes a bit against Malcolm Gladwell's findings - interesting read indeed - http://askakorean.blogspot.kr/2013/07/culturalism-gladwell-a...

Thank you for posting this. I wish more people were aware that Gladwell needs to be read with skepticism.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#103

Post by nosuchthing » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:13 AM UTC

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #85

clarkmoody wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people have never and will never murder. It's not human nature to do so.

The book Guns, germs and steel retorts that fit the majority of human history (I.e the last hundred thousand years or so) most human encounters with other humans who were not family resulted in death for one party or another. Still the case in some isolated areas. Only the growth of societies really changed that default inclination, out of necessity.

Absence of community, scarcity of resources, and a life of fear might have a significant influence on aggressive behavior in those circumstances.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#104

Post by Sir_Cmpwn » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:13 AM UTC

elwell wrote: post #92

matt2000 wrote: post #76

The fact that this story is the top of hacker news should indicate to us all that this site has lost what it had. How is this different than reddit? How do we want it to be different? This is simply a sensational, horrifying article that has been up voted because of its shock value. We can do better.

I would say: https://news.ycombinator.com/classic but that doesn't seem to help much.

What is that page?

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#105

Post by jgalt212 » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:14 AM UTC

pvnick wrote: post #56

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

People throughout history have killed, seemingly casually. It's human nature. I would contend that modern society has instilled these feelings of guilt associated with murder specifically against the natural tendency of man.

> People throughout history have killed, seemingly casually. It's human nature.

Putting aside the statement's low plausibility of truth, it is certainly the worst thing I've read in quite some time.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#106

Post by bwhite » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:15 AM UTC

spacehome wrote: post #38

mirimir wrote: post #18

There's a similar dynamic in Mexico. Causing injury can mean responsibility for lifetime care. Another factor is Napoleonic law aka presumption of guilt. So one may end up in jail until trial. The third factor is ubiquitous graft. After an accident, the party with the most cash gets to tell the official story. So yes, advice is to flee with plates and registration (if any). But I didn't get that killing victims was c…

> Causing injury can mean responsibility for lifetime care. As well it should.

It might depend on the circumstances. Even if the driver is fully at fault, though, it doesn't have to financially devastate the individual. This situation is tailor-made for insurance.

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#107

Post by MarkMc » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:15 AM UTC

matt2000 wrote: post #76

The fact that this story is the top of hacker news should indicate to us all that this site has lost what it had. How is this different than reddit? How do we want it to be different? This is simply a sensational, horrifying article that has been up voted because of its shock value. We can do better.

I'm quite happy to see this story on Hacker News. Yes, it has shock value but also leads to some deep questions about human nature, cultural relativism, morality, criminal justice, etc. For example, it has made me wonder whether an every-man-for-himself culture necessarily leads to a poor outcome for all involved, a bit like the prisoner's dilemma on a large scale. Can China become a first-world country without changing this aspect of their culture?

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#108

Post by Jach » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:16 AM UTC

gburt wrote: post #74

ketralnis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that makes the incentive to kill them instead it injur them.

Not if you set the penalty for killing even higher. The problem here is the order of the size of the penalties, not the penalty itself.

You also need to get the probability of getting caught higher, in fact that's probably more important than the size of the punishment itself. Many governments cannot realistically commit to increasing the chances. Edit: Besides, isn't the penalty for murder in most places either the death penalty or life in prison, barring degrees of how much of an accident it was?

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#109

Post by the_economist » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:18 AM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #77

I could not finish this article. I have read about and seen a lot of disturbing things, but this bothers me far more than any horror movie or shock film ever could. The situation exposed in this article evidences something really fundamental about human nature: the banality of evil. That someone could run over a toddler and then reverse back and forth over them just so they only have to pay $50,000 instead of $400,00…

Humans are basically good: http://www.ted.com/talks/ben_dunlap_talks_about_a_passionate...

Re: Why drivers in China intentionally kill the pedestrians they hit

#110

Post by chaostheory » Sat, Sep 05, 2015, 3:18 AM UTC

orthoganol wrote: post #63

sandworm101 wrote: post #49

Forgetting the laws, what sort of people can so casually kill like this? There are basic human instincts not to hurt people. Armies have to train soldiers to ignore these feelings because without training most won't kill even under combat situations. So when I see someone kill so casually I have to believe that they have rehearsed the scenario in their head beforehand. That means a large number of chinese people driv…

I lived in China for a few months. The way it was explained to me was, it's you and your family, and everyone else can f * off.

This is spot on. There's a reason that people's last name comes before their first over there. It's a low trust society where the only thing that matters is your clan.