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Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#51
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guix is becoming increasingly ready for prime time. There's one big HPC install in Germany already running it. I think it's past the toy stage. I guess Guix + Hurd is a great setup, with innovative features in the kernel and userland. Both very pure in their respective ways, with Guix having functional package management, and Hurd keeping the kernel minimal so that crashes or security breaches are not catastrophic.

What's the difference between Nix and Guix anyway, and which is 'better'?

Nix is what Guix is based on. You can think of Guix as the 'GNU Version' of Nix/NixOS, meaning it provides free software packages, and IIRC it uses Guile Scheme, rather than Nix, to describe all the packages and OS configuration.

It's a toss up as to whatever you like. I think Nix has a bigger community, more packages, etc. But Guix, strictly speaking I think, is a 'superset' because changes from Nix often flow into Guix (and Guix can use Nix packages directly), as Guix is built directly on the same source-code as Nix - but not the other way around. There are some other differences, like the fact Guix uses GNU dmd while NixOS uses systemd, etc etc.

It's all just personal preference I think. I use NixOS because it's reliable and has a decently sized community, and a lot of packages. It also has really, really good Haskell support, and being a Haskell developer, that's a pretty big plus to me. Having non-free packages isn't so much of a stickler for me. I think the Guix people are doing good work, though, and a distribution for free software and the GNU project is very important - so I wish them the best even if I'm farther away.

You'd have to try both of them and make a decision for yourself IMO. But I warn you: the rabbit hole is deep, and will require learning. And when you come out - you may be immensely displeased with the current state of affairs. :)

(Full disclosure: IAMA NixOS developer.)

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest limiting factor at the moment with Hurd is their choice for the base microkernel, currently Mach which hasn't had substantial updates for years. While Hurd improves its userspace support, the should also revisit the idea of rebasing the OS on L4 (where you can also load a Linux instance in userspace for compatibility) or Minix3 which has been working on its own kernel features.

which hasn't had substantial updates for years. Not true. GNU Mach has been undergoing lots of refactoring recently with regards to locking, protected payloads for threefold lowering of RPC lookups, the VM subsystem and so forth.

So what sort of performance improvements have been made? Is Mach now in the same bracket as other, newer microkernels?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between Nix and Guix anyway, and which is 'better'?

Nix is what Guix is based on. You can think of Guix as the 'GNU Version' of Nix/NixOS, meaning it provides free software packages, and IIRC it uses Guile Scheme, rather than Nix, to describe all the packages and OS configuration. It's a toss up as to whatever you like. I think Nix has a bigger community, more packages, etc. But Guix, strictly speaking I think, is a 'superset' because changes from Nix often flow into…

I'm giving both a try. Nix is more polished, has many more packages, and is better documented.

I prefer Guix choice of using a real programming language (Scheme!) instead of a DSL, but I really like Nix anyway.

Something that annoys me sometimes is that Nix has a few really bloated packages, compiled with all dependencies on. For example, if I try installing mutt I eventually get python as a dependency. This is a bit ugly. I'm aware it's easy to change this, but I'd still love to get thinner binaries from hydra. Otherwise, a really neat piece of software.

Guix tends to be a bit more like Slackware or Arch. Very vanilla things. I would love if Nix went a bit in that direction too with regards to packaging policies. It's more secure and nicer to humble devices, like cheap Chromebooks.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#54
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool to hear. Where can we read more about this? Or is this an insider comment?

Here's some blog posts about HPC with Guix: http://elephly.net/posts/2015-04-17-gnu-guix.html http://zvfak.blogspot.com/2015/07/gnu-guix-for-easily-managi... And here's a paper on the subject: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01161771/en

davexunit, one day I will need to track you down in real life. I think we would geek out all day on Scheme.

I love when I see you and others mention your FRP Scheme in games work. Keep it up!

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#55
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's some blog posts about HPC with Guix: http://elephly.net/posts/2015-04-17-gnu-guix.html http://zvfak.blogspot.com/2015/07/gnu-guix-for-easily-managi... And here's a paper on the subject: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01161771/en

davexunit, one day I will need to track you down in real life. I think we would geek out all day on Scheme. I love when I see you and others mention your FRP Scheme in games work. Keep it up!

Thank you! I really appreciate the kind words. Happy hacking!
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