Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#11

Post by vezzy-fnord » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:19 PM UTC

jakeogh wrote: post #10

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

Exciting! "processes running under multiple uids" Why?

https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd/authentication.html

It's a form of capability-based security and it makes some forms of sandboxing or access control trivial (i.e. removing rights from processes). If you want to block a process from accessing a certain subsystem, just rmauth its session token to the server.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#12

Post by ai_ja_nai » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:29 PM UTC

>Hardware support >● i686 >● start of 64bit support

WTF? They started 30 years ago and still on an 32bit architecture nobody cares anymore?

Beside that, I really don't get the point of all this, seriously. Not from a technological benefit, be warned, but from a user perspective the benefit is almost intangible. Why should the average sysadmin care? Linux is a rock solid kernel that does everything, what is the niche that Hurd is filling?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#13

Post by ai_ja_nai » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:32 PM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

I don't get all this hate on Linux: it basically sustained GNU project for almost 25 years...

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#14

Post by vezzy-fnord » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:39 PM UTC

ai_ja_nai wrote: post #13

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

I don't get all this hate on Linux: it basically sustained GNU project for almost 25 years...

No one is hating Linux. But Linux isn't exactly of much help towards advancing the status quo of OSes, either.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#15

Post by 616c » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:40 PM UTC

nextos wrote: post #6

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

Guix is becoming increasingly ready for prime time. There's one big HPC install in Germany already running it. I think it's past the toy stage. I guess Guix + Hurd is a great setup, with innovative features in the kernel and userland. Both very pure in their respective ways, with Guix having functional package management, and Hurd keeping the kernel minimal so that crashes or security breaches are not catastrophic.

Very cool to hear. Where can we read more about this? Or is this an insider comment?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#16

Post by davexunit » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 8:45 PM UTC

616c wrote: post #15

nextos wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guix is becoming increasingly ready for prime time. There's one big HPC install in Germany already running it. I think it's past the toy stage. I guess Guix + Hurd is a great setup, with innovative features in the kernel and userland. Both very pure in their respective ways, with Guix having functional package management, and Hurd keeping the kernel minimal so that crashes or security breaches are not catastrophic.

Very cool to hear. Where can we read more about this? Or is this an insider comment?

Here's some blog posts about HPC with Guix:

http://elephly.net/posts/2015-04-17-gnu-guix.html

http://zvfak.blogspot.com/2015/07/gnu-guix-for-easily-managi...

And here's a paper on the subject:

https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01161771/en

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#17

Post by superuser2 » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 9:08 PM UTC

ai_ja_nai wrote: post #13

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

I don't get all this hate on Linux: it basically sustained GNU project for almost 25 years...

Linux is required to support a lot of legacy at this point; to try truly new paradigms you need to be in a codebase with no backwards compatibility requirements to break.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#18

Post by Sanddancer » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 9:08 PM UTC

ai_ja_nai wrote: post #13

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #5

The preliminary rump kernel support that arrived just a bit more than a week ago is quite promising, if still quite rudimentary. That said, a patched MPlayer linking to rump libraries has been able to play OGG files on a Hurd system: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-hurd/2015-08/msg00027... Though obviously in the very initial stages, the implications of this development taken to its end could be enormous. Have…

I don't get all this hate on Linux: it basically sustained GNU project for almost 25 years...

Diversity is a good thing. Systems-level research is at a woeful state right now because the status quo is Good Enough for a lot of people. Thus, the number of interesting ideas to try, to fail, to succeed is a trickle to what it should be. Database-based and object-based filesystems are little more than research projects because of the hard to shake belief of what stored items should look like and what their properties are.

We need to work on projects with little to no preconceived notions, so we can start poking at things, figuring out what can be done better. We indeed have a working model, but I'm certain we can do better than just working.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#19

Post by mhd » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #17

ai_ja_nai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get all this hate on Linux: it basically sustained GNU project for almost 25 years...

Linux is required to support a lot of legacy at this point; to try truly new paradigms you need to be in a codebase with no backwards compatibility requirements to break.

Then again, if it is supposed to be a Unix/POSIX system, you've already got plenty of compatibility requirements…

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Status Update [pdf]

#20

Post by vezzy-fnord » Tue, Aug 25, 2015, 9:44 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #19

superuser2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is required to support a lot of legacy at this point; to try truly new paradigms you need to be in a codebase with no backwards compatibility requirements to break.

Then again, if it is supposed to be a Unix/POSIX system, you've already got plenty of compatibility requirements…

Compatibility is mostly on the interface level. The underlying semantics are often different or extended, though kept reasonable. This emerges from the fact that you're not actually setting traps in the kernel, but sending RPC messages to servers.