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Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

theguardian.com

51–60 of 63 posts

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#51

While I agree that it might be time for Flash (the proprietary plugin) to be retired, I'm totally against dancing on it's grave, as is the tone of this article. We have to respect it for what it brought to the world. Flash has enabled many technologies and companies, like online video (youtube?), music playback (....) , games, cartoons and so on. I remember how amazed I was by the perfection of the first flash websit…

Hear, hear. Flash was the most wonderful laboratory.

Also: The Flash Virtual Machine is the real problem. It's bloody awful and buggy and slow. The tooling was fabulous, though. ActionScript (3) was (IMHO) excellent, well-documented and easy to use for developer-hackers. MTASC and then the Flex incremental compiler were great too, and I'm sorry they're out of use.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#53

Flash is dying! - 2015 Flash is dying! - 2014 Flash is dying! - 2013 Flash is dying! - 2012 Flash is dying! - 2011 Flash is dying! - 2010 Although I am hopeful for this year

Realistically, sadly, it was never going to be a sudden thing. When it does happen, I don't think many people even notice until someone prominent makes noise about it.

This isn't the worst possible outcome by any means.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Say what you will about the the bad old times of Dreamweaver and Flash, but back then, visual artists could actually contribute to the Web without going through "web programmer" gatekeepers. Unfortunately programmers have recaptured the power since then, declared the old technologies broken in ways that only programmers can understand, and brought nothing in return. IMO that's not an accident. Many programmers…

I don't think developers have problems with user-enabling technologies (at least I don't). What we do have problems with, however, are technologies that suck away our battery life and CPU time with little or no return, all while bringing a steady stream of exploitable security holes. If Adobe had actually made a serious effort to make Flash a lean, secure machine it'd still be around. Instead, they decided to just ke…

If you want to blame anyone for stealing your battery life, blame it on the programmers. They were the using who took and easy to use (therefore easy to abuse) tech and misused it. Does Flash have more security holes then other techs? Maybe, but I do know that since it has a billion users, it is a prime target for every hacker. However I will agree that Adobe has drank the cool aid when it comes to the broken model which is HTML5, CSS, and WebGL

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#55
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Thesedays disabling javascript would likely render any webpage unusable.

> Thesedays disabling javascript would likely render any webpage unusable. Not any web page, and not completely unusable, but it's getting worse every single day. It makes me sick to see the open web perverted so badly. Web pages should be documents to be read, not programs to execute!

> Web pages should be documents to be read, not programs to execute!

I really hope that you're not one one the people who are confused and upset that native mobile apps are replacing websites. If you want to know why web pages are becoming programs to execute, not documents to read, the answer is trivial: neither the content producers, nor the content consumers, are looking for web pages that are merely documents. They're looking for web pages that are programs. You want web sites to remain documents, but that doesn't meet (almost) anyone's needs.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#56

While I agree that it might be time for Flash (the proprietary plugin) to be retired, I'm totally against dancing on it's grave, as is the tone of this article. We have to respect it for what it brought to the world. Flash has enabled many technologies and companies, like online video (youtube?), music playback (....) , games, cartoons and so on. I remember how amazed I was by the perfection of the first flash websit…

Yeah. Say what you will about the the bad old times of Dreamweaver and Flash, but back then, visual artists could actually contribute to the Web without going through "web programmer" gatekeepers. Unfortunately programmers have recaptured the power since then, declared the old technologies broken in ways that only programmers can understand, and brought nothing in return. IMO that's not an accident. Many programmers…

This reminds me of a recent article on Offworld: http://boingboing.net/2015/08/24/a-game-making-app-for-every... The author went through a list of simple game-making programs that she had written up a few years ago, and found that most of them had expanded towards creating more "professional" games, and so had lost the simplicity that made them good to recommend to people getting into game development.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#57
post #49

While I agree that it might be time for Flash (the proprietary plugin) to be retired, I'm totally against dancing on it's grave, as is the tone of this article. We have to respect it for what it brought to the world. Flash has enabled many technologies and companies, like online video (youtube?), music playback (....) , games, cartoons and so on. I remember how amazed I was by the perfection of the first flash websit…

Flash and Internet Explorer stole us probably 10 years of technological advancement. The state of the open web slowed down because of them. And I see this happening again with native mobile apps.

Perhaps... but they did stuff that the tools of the "open web" could not... those technologies "got stuff done". And if they stole 10 years, then the competition (open web) was not yet up to par for about 7-8 years.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#58
post #49

While I agree that it might be time for Flash (the proprietary plugin) to be retired, I'm totally against dancing on it's grave, as is the tone of this article. We have to respect it for what it brought to the world. Flash has enabled many technologies and companies, like online video (youtube?), music playback (....) , games, cartoons and so on. I remember how amazed I was by the perfection of the first flash websit…

Flash and Internet Explorer stole us probably 10 years of technological advancement. The state of the open web slowed down because of them. And I see this happening again with native mobile apps.

This is insanely far off base. When Flash was ascendant there was no open web, not on the horizon, not even as a glimmer in the milkman's eye. HTML/web development was a nasty brutish mess with each browser extending each "standard" however they wanted, while the w3c specified stuff none of the vendors were even considering implementing.

Then Flash came along with a single API, a single consistent model for interactivity, actual graceful degradation, video and audio that worked, etc. And content worked the same way across browsers and platforms. And it was much, much better than HTML/JS, so web development justifiably got its ass kicked for a few years. THEN, gradually, the standards committees and the browser started standardizing and implementing everything Flash had validated. That lead to the open web.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#59
It's a shame that most of the people espousing Javascript were watching Power Rangers when Flash's real contribution to the web was being recognized.

There are a few archetypes of flash haters and they almost all fall into one of these categories:

* Tech Bloggers looking for a salacious story, considering Flash is Dead articles always get a lot of debate (and clicks)

* Young kids who lack the historical perspective to understand Flash's contributions to the web and just want to bully something unpopular.

* Mac Users who for years suffered a lot of stability and performance problems from the poorly supported Mac Flash plugin and have never let it go.

* Ex-Flash developers who feel that Adobe abandoned and betrayed them by their silence on the "Flash is Dead" issue and turned on the technology that predicated their careers.

* Security experts who were sick of the constant patching of their network's machines due to the continual trickle of discovered flaws.

* Impressional engineers who never researched anything objective about Flash but heard something from one of the above archetypes and blindly follow it.

* Brendan Eich, who in his quest to globally dominate the world with Javascript, threw Flash under the bus publicly many times.

Adobe has done several things to fundamentally address their concerns:

- They released auto-updating plugins (albeit too late in my opinion) so they could patch players on their own.

- They doubled down to make the Mac client more secure and performant (albeit too late in my opinion)

- They increased the frequency of updates, including biweekly beta releases, and quarterly major updates. Nobody knows this though.

What Adobe has not done is market Flash (or its little brother AIR) in any way. They have made some public announcements that they are not abandoning the runtimes but it's hard to know when that will change, so it's almost as if they never said it at all.

I have a very unique take on the situation. I think plugins are a superior way to distribute content technology. It is faster to innovate than open standards development, and provides a more consistent quality than fragmented browser-based development.

My analogy is 3D printers. One day 3D printers will be able to make super complex things such as watches or maybe even cars. Do you really think Rolex or Tesla would adopt such a technology? Hell no. And the reason is simple: your product is reduced to the quality of the crappiest 3D printer out there. The quality is no longer in the content maker's hands, but in the 3D printer manufacturer's hands. Your only option is to reduce the quality of your own content to the lowest common denominator of all the 3D printers out there.

And that's exactly what we now face in an HTML5 future. Flash provided a very consistent presentation of content across all browsers and even mobile during its brief life on Android. Flash would auto update major features every 3 months, giving access to very advanced GPU based rendering features. Now we have to wait around for every browser out there to adopt WebGL standards. Some have done it well, others half-assed it, and on Mobile, forget about it. And even WebGL is now an outdated standard now that glNext is coming. So we have to start all over again.

HTML5 enthusiasts sure are patient people. If they knew how fast Adobe can get updates/security fixes out to a very high % of people, they'd be green with envy.

Re: Flash is dying a death by 1,000 cuts, and that's a good thing

#60
I really don't know what benefits open sourcing flash would have, do you? JavaScript is in many ways more dangerous as it does not operate in the same security sandbox as flash. I can not specify a customized Java Script interpreter that visitors must use when they visit my website, they will always be relegated to what has been implemented by their browser. There is a big difference between open-source and free. Open-sourcing flash would most likely lead to a few dozen clones, just look at linux or android. Instead of a unified platform now there would be multiple variations. You would have to make sure your project ran on every single version in order for anyone to even see what you where trying to do. I think firefox's impetus has more to do with them justifying Shumway ( and continuing their funding) then anything.
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