Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me • Hacker News Board

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#221

Post by betenoire » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:45 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #220

betenoire wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you know which is which? If you see a name that you recognize that used AM, do you ask them to clarify which bucket they belong in, or do you just assign them one yourself?

The site, as far as I know, bills itself as a place to find cheating partners. The poly people I know seem to have their own places for finding potential relationship partners. The poly people I know are also all quite open about their relationship choices. If I saw a name I recognized on Ashley Madison, I'd assume they wanted to cheat and keep that hidden from their partners.

And that's my point. You get to pick how you judge them, and you do. You don't hire cheaters, I don't hire judgers. To each his own.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#222

Post by angersock » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:46 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #213

dragonwriter wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like you and I, they are simply looking for companionship - for someone they can count on for support and non-judgement during times of crisis, but who will also push them to become better and achieve their goals. transfire explicitly was addressing the condition of men seeking sex , which is not the same as mean seeking "companionship - for someone they can count on for support and non-judgement during times of cr…

Interesting. I like your argument a lot. Its logical conclusion is the prostitution industry, which is dominated by men paying for sex with women. Still, I wanted to draw attention to the fact that most people are looking for some mix of physical intimacy (sex) and emotional intimacy (companionship). There will always be imbalances where needs are not met, but to posit that most women use sex as a tool to manipulate…

There will always be imbalances where needs are not met, but to posit that most women use sex as a tool to manipulate men that are less than perfect doesn't sit well with me.

First, don't get so hung up on "perfect". I think the poster intended it to mean "passing some standard", presumably a high one, and possibly one they themselves are unable to meet. Their word choice just wasn't very good.

As for the rest, it doesn't have to sit well with you: it's simply the way things have been in any culture where we expect long-term relationships and especially any culture where you have heredity concerns. Consider the stigma around, for example, "being a slut"--a great deal (if not the majority) of which is perpetuated by women against other women, from mothers warning their daughters, and so on!

The entire mythos surrounding virginity and monogamous relationships and whatnot hinges on the notion that women control the supply of sex, that men voluntarily prostrate themselves to obtain that sex, that men punish other men who take it by force (because, frankly, women are ill-equipped by mother nature to do so), that men need to know that their children (historically and especially the eldest male) are in fact theirs (something hard before paternity tests and so a piece of the slut-shaming puzzle), and so on.

To deny that women are at least somewhat shrewd and discerning in their sexual exploits is patronizing.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#223

Post by angersock » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

transfire wrote: post #199

Frondo wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa! That is some seriously messed-up stuff! Imperfect men can either beg for sex or attempt rape? No! Just, no! A thousand times no! I would strongly encourage you to talk to a professional mental health practitioner if that's your view on sexual relations. Something has gone seriously off the rails for you, and I hope you'll put in the effort to try and fix things up.

You seemed to have missed what I said about subtlety. When a man takes a woman on a date and pays for it, it's a subtle form of "begging". When a man is forward with a woman in hopes she will like the advances it is subtle form of "taking". You're the one reading only the extremities into what I said.

You really need to pick better terminology here, because "begging" and "taking" both have unfortunate additional connotations that are throwing people off from whatever point you think you're making.

I kinda figured you were looking at a distinction similar to inbound/outbound marketing, but your example elsewhere of taking somebody out to dinner vs. asking them directly is just bad.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#224

Post by Frondo » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:54 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #194

Frondo wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care about cheating because it tells me that the person is OK with lying to people close to them. If they're OK lying to their spouse, my concern is that they're also OK lying to a customer. If people want to have an open marriage or practice polyamory, fine, that's entirely up to them. The deception is the thing here that is problematic.

I care about cheating because it tells me that the person is OK with lying to people close to them. Then you should care about marijuana users and people in repressive regimes who import contraband media and news for in the same way for the same reasons.

I don't have to, actually.

People who enter into monogamous relationships can get one set of "this is what counts as honesty" rules w.r.t. what they owe their spouses (i.e. don't cheat).

People who are born into and live in repressive regimes can get a different set of "this is what counts as honesty" (i.e. some law is unjust and therefore can be broken).

Funnily enough, though, sometimes I do hear of people breaking laws that makes me think they're less trustworthy, too. Like a guy I know who wants to try and get a handicapped parking placard even though he isn't handicapped. You know, those spots are supposed to be for people who really can't walk that far, and he wants to try and grab one because of the convenience. That's a trivial example, and dumb, but when I hear that I think, there's a guy who wants to rip off the system in a small way, but one that could hurt people who actually need it.

So it's not like "here is one conception of honesty that I have to apply everywhere, mechanically and without human reasoning." Human life is more nuanced than that.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#225

Post by Karunamon » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:57 PM UTC

gnufied wrote: post #219

SXX wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In same time Steam support accounts are completely independent from Steam store accounts. Anyway my point is: Steam is not dating website or social network that collect tons of your personal information. By not having account deletion procedure they don't hurt anyone's privacy, but just save average user from one more possible pain in ass for no reason (because they wouldn't be able to delete accounts for real anyway…

For majority of users who use any kind of ingame purchase (dota, TF2 hats) - Steam stores credit card information etc. I know one can pay using Paypal but I dunno how many users use that option. So, Steam does store personal information of users period. It is not very different from any other service. On other hand, allowing users to delete their accounts can help with kicking serious gaming addiction. It usually tak…

Nah.

Valve only runs two games that meet that description, TF2 and DOTA2, and "resetting your progress" is as easy as burning all your items.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#226

Post by peterwwillis » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 7:58 PM UTC

rdancer wrote: post #212

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, technically men cheat a little more than women, according to studies that aren't done by dating companies. But the 'why' is varied. It's illogical to say "they cheat because they are more likely to cheat". They cheat because of many factors, but according to surveys, they cheat more often out of a need for physical satisfaction, while women cheat more out of a need for emotional or intimate satisfaction. As far…

> men cheat a little more than women, according to studies Women admit to cheating less than men, and this is reflected in a bias of studies whose methodology includes self-reporting. In general, women self-report about one third less sex partners than men. That presents a curious mathematical problem: who are all those extra men partnering with? Let's say the average reported number of sex partners for males is 11.7…

The design of the study has more to do with this than anything else. Still, there's been several decades (at least) of independent study on the subject, and all of them i've seen conclude that more men cheat than women, even if more recent studies show the frequency of women cheating is increasing. Regardless of your math, the fact that every study leads to the same conclusion is what I would call strong evidence that this is more likely than not to be true.

The simplest answer to your question ("who are all those extra men partnering with?") is incredibly simple: there's a smaller group of women who sleep with a greater number of men than vice-versa. And this makes total sense if you consider that women have more choice of partners, and men have less, and that there's a larger pool of men looking for purely physical/sexual relationships. Basically the availability of men is greater, the availability of women is smaller, and so the reported number of women cheating is smaller, and the reported number of men cheating is larger.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#227

Post by ketralnis » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 8:05 PM UTC

metamet wrote: post #75

_cpancake wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite sure what you're confused about. The gender inequality that still exists. It's pretty straightforward.

There will always be some form of inequality. That's what happens when you have two distinct things and compare them.

And that's honestly what you think people mean when they say gender inequality?

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#228

Post by iso8859-1 » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #164

iso8859-1 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheating is legal No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States

From the article: " In the United States, laws vary from state to state. Up until the mid 20th century most US states (especially Southern and Northeastern states) had laws against fornication, adultery or cohabitation. These laws have gradually been abolished or struck down by courts as unconstitutional.[138][139][140]" If the law making it illegal is unconstitutional, it's legal.

Did you see the bit about Michigan? Here is the current law: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-777-16a

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#229

Post by SXX » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 10:33 PM UTC

gnufied wrote: post #219

SXX wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In same time Steam support accounts are completely independent from Steam store accounts. Anyway my point is: Steam is not dating website or social network that collect tons of your personal information. By not having account deletion procedure they don't hurt anyone's privacy, but just save average user from one more possible pain in ass for no reason (because they wouldn't be able to delete accounts for real anyway…

For majority of users who use any kind of ingame purchase (dota, TF2 hats) - Steam stores credit card information etc. I know one can pay using Paypal but I dunno how many users use that option. So, Steam does store personal information of users period. It is not very different from any other service. On other hand, allowing users to delete their accounts can help with kicking serious gaming addiction. It usually tak…

Saving of credit card information is optional on and it's can be removed with one click. There no big difference between trust service that it's going to remove this data or whole account.

And idea that some people going to remove somebody else account to "help with gaming addition" is good reason to not implement removal.

Re: Here’s what Ashley Madison members have told me

#230

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Aug 24, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

iso8859-1 wrote: post #228

logfromblammo wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: " In the United States, laws vary from state to state. Up until the mid 20th century most US states (especially Southern and Northeastern states) had laws against fornication, adultery or cohabitation. These laws have gradually been abolished or struck down by courts as unconstitutional.[138][139][140]" If the law making it illegal is unconstitutional, it's legal.

Did you see the bit about Michigan? Here is the current law: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-777-16a

The US Supreme Court has ruled that any relationship between consenting adults is legal, and that any laws against the same are unconstitutional. (2003, Lawrence v Texas) This applied in this case to homosexuality, but the Supreme Court's ruling didn't limit the interpretation.

No politician wants to be the one who says "I propose a bill to make adultery legal. It's not an issue for the courts." There have been less that a dozen misdemeanor prosecutions in the last half century in those 21 states combined. So yes, in those states, it's illegal. Unconstitutionally so. Just as in many cases, so was homosexuality, and anal sex.