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A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#61

Post by viraptor »

obrero wrote: post #28
digi_owl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, if one go back to old guy Marx we find that he was no fan of centralization. His thinking was towards workers owning the factory they worked at. Then again he also apparently had himself talked in circles to make his findings fit the labor theory of value. Still, while mostly we hear about worker exploitation etc he did dial in on the issue of debt and banking. And how there was a second struggle betwee…

> Then again he also apparently had himself talked in circles to make his findings fit the labor theory of value. And what are the record and movie companies imploring us with, when they say we shouldn't copy ("pirate") songs, movies or software? They say that the value of the product came from the work of the artists or programmers, and they deserve to be paid for their efforts. Well what is that but the labor theor…

I see the opposite actually. The whole issue of disparity between worker and CEO wage is about companies applying subjective value.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#62

Post by ajuc »

rasz_pl wrote: post #24

The bit about getting a work permit is a little weird. At that time average monthly salary was ~$5. His Dutch parents could literally just send him lunch money, and it would be enough to for an upper class lifestyle at the time. Flower/grape/whatever picking for a month in the west was enough to finance rest of the year. It was as bad as in Greece right now, everything worth something got sold to multinationals for p…

He would have to change on the black market, though, a little risky if you don't know Polish. The official rate was much worse. But yeah, the rate was absurd, especially when the inflation kicked in in late 80s.

My father worked for a few months as a farmer in Austria, and paid back 30-years mortgage for that money.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#63

Post by bernardom »

krallja wrote: post #58
_mgr wrote: post #45

I've read this before. Has this already been posted to HN? I am trying to convince my native born Polish girlfriend to move back for a year to live/work/travel. I figure I will pick up the language far quicker than my current pace. She's a little apprehensive about our earning potential there. The Polish Zloty does not appear to be the strongest currency and the average wage is half of some of it's other EU cousins.

It's from 2014, and by an infamous HNer, so you've almost certainly had a chance to read it before.

It's even weirder clicking on the story, thinking "wait, I remember this," and then reading your name on the intro :-)

(Thanks again for writing this up, Jacques!)

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#64

Post by austenallred »

x0054 wrote: post #19
tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

Yes, indeed, the "магазин" or the "гастраном" :) I also still remember the experience of having to bring a 3 liter pickle jar to buy milk from a barrel on wheels. It's funny because sometime we would see the barrel pull up, but we wouldn't know what they were selling. Could be mil, could be beer, could be kvas (not sure how to translate). We would rush in, because what ever it was, it's better than nothing ;) I also…

For what it's worth, that's how a lot of people get their kvas/milk today in eastern Ukraine. At least in the smaller cities I lived in (Gorlovka, Makyevka).

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#65

Post by brc »

x0054 wrote: post #19
tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

Yes, indeed, the "магазин" or the "гастраном" :) I also still remember the experience of having to bring a 3 liter pickle jar to buy milk from a barrel on wheels. It's funny because sometime we would see the barrel pull up, but we wouldn't know what they were selling. Could be mil, could be beer, could be kvas (not sure how to translate). We would rush in, because what ever it was, it's better than nothing ;) I also…

So I'm genuinely curious - what's your attitude towards socialism and communism now?

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#66

Post by brc »

obrero wrote: post #28
digi_owl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, if one go back to old guy Marx we find that he was no fan of centralization. His thinking was towards workers owning the factory they worked at. Then again he also apparently had himself talked in circles to make his findings fit the labor theory of value. Still, while mostly we hear about worker exploitation etc he did dial in on the issue of debt and banking. And how there was a second struggle betwee…

> Then again he also apparently had himself talked in circles to make his findings fit the labor theory of value. And what are the record and movie companies imploring us with, when they say we shouldn't copy ("pirate") songs, movies or software? They say that the value of the product came from the work of the artists or programmers, and they deserve to be paid for their efforts. Well what is that but the labor theor…

The labour theory of value is completely incorrect, and working from it in any direction will leave you nowhere to go.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#67

Post by brc »

coldtea wrote: post #53
blumkvist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously suggesting that people living in the US have it worse than in the communist bloc?

Depends. There are poor people in the US living in comparable (or worse) conditions than people suffered in some of the countries of the "communist block". I know some older people from the "block" (from Albania and Hungary for example), and some of them look back into that era as "the good times", considering that they were teachers, engineers and other such jobs, and now they clean floors or poor concrete in constr…

No it does not depend at all.

There are people in the USA who have bad outcomes, for sure. But to compare that to soviet-bloc countries is an insult to those who suffered under those totalitarian regimes.

It wasn't just the injustices, the corruption, the shortages or the inability to trust anyone - it was also the fact that there was nothing you personally could do to change or improve the situation.

Poor people in the USA still have freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of speech and stores stacked full of cheap food. They also have - no matter how difficult - the ability to change things and improve the lot of themsleves and their families.

Of course there are people who were disadvantaged by a change in the system. And of course that changeover was inequitable. But the improvement at scale for the people as a whole is inarguable.

It always concerns me to see attempts at historical cleansing and ignorance of the horrors of the past.

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#68

Post by dsmolovich »

tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

Bananas were a common good sold in Moscow back in 80-s. Every time my grandpa was on his business trip to Moscow he brought a bunch of them. Green, but in a few days they go yellow and sweet enough to eat.

Lines formed nowadays for buying a newer version of iPhone remind me those days back in USSR. No kidding. :)

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#69

Post by pandaman »

da02 wrote: post #27
tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

Did you see the abacus being used in "stores" or restaurants back then? John Stossel visited a govt restaurant back then and the waiters were lazy even when the cameras were around. I do remember reading that many people who fled East Germany wanted to go back. I'm guessing it was mainly adults. One couple who left Soviet Russia mentioned on a daytime talk show the one thing they did not like about the US was the hig…

I've seen abacus being used. Most stores sold everything over the counter (as opposed to pick-stuff-up-and-bring-to-the-register-yourself, which was called "Self-service store") but often there has not been a cash register behind the counter. In order to buy something you had to stand in line to the counter, ask the clerk for the goods you wanted to buy and the clerk would put them aside and tell you the total price, then you had to go to the cash register line and pay the price to the cashier, then come back with the receipt to the clerk (they'd allow you to cut in the line for this) and pick up your purchase. In big stores there were multiple counters so you would get all the receipts at once by telling the counter's numbers and prices to the cashier.

Cashiers usually did not have to use an abacus since the cash register worked as a calculator but the clerk had to calculate the price of your purchase and for that she often used an abacus though some stores had an electronic calculator at the counter.

The whole system was very bizarre. I am not sure why they had to do this. One theory was that it was to prevent people who were handling food items at the counter from touching money but this also happened in the stores that sold non-edible goods. They did minimize the number of the cash registers I imagine, since one register could be shared between multiple counters. Could be easier to account for fewer registers?

Re: A Western Kid Living in Communist Poland (2014)

#70

Post by rokhayakebe »

tinbad wrote: post #2

Growing up with my grandparents in the 80s in Moscow, I remember standing in line in front of a place literally called 'Store' for hours. Nobody knew what the line was for or what it was the store was getting in that day. Some people spend the night waiting just to be in front. After standing in line all day, finally by dusk a truck pulls up. Everybody looking in anxiety and worried about not being enough merchandise…

Oh man, I laughed at your story. I am amazed at how you are able to find irony in such a tough moment. Or perhaps kids are just able to enjoy even the smallest things.

This is definitely a story to tell (someday) your kids and grandkids during summer breaks, around the fireplace.

Thanks for sharing.

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