The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#421

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #214

mattzito wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have sympathy for people who make their SOs an unconsenting part of three-way sexual relationship Do you have sympathy for people whose three-way sexual relationships are unconsentingly made public?

Yes, and you'd see my statement to that effect if you haven't skipped most of my response.

Oh yes, it was there. Fairly handwavingly dismissed as "and they're just unfortunate collateral damage in the virtuous goal of helping people find out about their spouses".

It's amazingly easy to label people 'collateral damage' when those people are not you.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#422

Post by Lawtonfogle » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:05 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #415

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering infidelity can lead to non-consensualy exposing people to STDs and possibly lead to rape (depending upon how you define consent).

No. Rape is not "I wouldn't have had sex with that person if I was better informed". Where does that end? "He has an STD"? "He is unfaithful"? "He cheats at poker"? "He is a bad father"? "If I'd known that, I wouldn't have had sex, therefore it wasn't consensual". (edited for grammar)

>No. Rape is not "I wouldn't have had sex with that person if I was better informed".

I never said it was. I said that under some definitions that people use it is. Especially when it involves disclosing use of birth control (all cases I know of involve men lying, as that increases the biological risk of the woman, while the woman lying doesn't make the man more likely to get pregnant) and when it involves lying about having STDs.

I'm not saying which definition is right, only pointing out that some people (and I believe some legal systems) do use such definitions (and as such this influences other moral decisions they make).

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#423

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:06 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #240

camillomiller wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Tout se tient :)

Let me finish off by agreeing with you about eliminating the Bible in court. Not only is it out of place, but a person who doesn't believe in such things could swear on it and proceed to lie simply because they don't believe that they will go to Hell. This means that not only is it completely ineffective, but if an actually Christian person comes along they would be at an unfair disadvantage: being unable to lie like…

>if an actually Christian person comes along they would be at an unfair disadvantage: being unable to lie like everyone else can //

You may not be aware that the NT says that people shouldn't take an oath instead let your "yes be yes"; ie just tell it straight, be honourable. It's never come up but I'd be unwilling to swear on the Bible in court as it's against my faith as a Christian.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#424

Post by tanderson92 » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:08 PM UTC

joaq wrote: post #394

martin1975 wrote: post #377

On the bright side, the one thing this unfortunate incident will do is create an opening for many couples to reconcile, now that the truth is out. "We cannot be facile and say bygones will be bygones, because they will not be bygones and will return to haunt us. True reconciliation is never cheap, for it is based on forgiveness, which is costly. Forgiveness in turn depends on repentance, which has to be based on an a…

Once a cheater always a cheater. There's some kind of gaussian curve in this regard (like in so many other human attributes). Some people will never cheat, while others will cheat very frequently and most people are somewhere in between. I've done a lot of research on this, there are a lot of facts that affect someone's propensity to cheat including their number of sexual partners, level of education, marital status…

source please?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#425

Post by Lawtonfogle » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:08 PM UTC

moosey wrote: post #414

the_af wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the... How can you conflate rape with infidelity ? They are completely unrelated things! Rape is definitely a crime and an act of violence worthy of moral outrage. If you are forcing someone to have nonconsensual sex, that's terrible and totally unrelated to cheating. And you can have forced nonconsensual sex within a marriage. Seriously, rape is a completely different issue. Exposing people to STDs is a problem…

I'm not defending this position, so please don't pull out pitchforks or anything, just making an argument where this could be expanded into rape charges somewhere: There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape. For instance: saying that you are going to use a condom then removing it without the knowledge of your partner would be rape. One could argue that being in a marriage with the pro…

>There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape.

Exactly. And I'm not saying that is right or wrong. That is why I said 'possibly', because it depends upon if you agree with such a definition or not and if the legal jurisdiction you live in operates with such a definition or not.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#426

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:13 PM UTC

robgibbons wrote: post #351

vasilipupkin wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The website's existence itself is -- at the very best -- ethically and morally questionable". I vehemently disagree with this statement. Why is it morally and ethically questionable to facilitate private individuals finding sexual partners? Perhaps it's questionable according to your moral code, but society is not run on your personal moral code, thankfully

Luckily, most of the entire human race agrees with me. Maybe you don't think it's inherently unethical to cheat on your partner. But it is certainly an act of questionable morality. In fact, it is literally illegal in many states: "Adultery isn't just a crime in the eyes of your spouse. In 21 states, cheating in a marriage is against the law, punishable by a fine or even jail time." You, and all of the other moral re…

That's entirely disingenuous. There have been less than a dozen prosecutions for adultery in the last forty years in the US, all of which were classified as misdemeanors.

"It is generally accepted that one of the reasons adultery laws remain in effect is that getting rid of them would require politicians to vocally oppose them, something few are willing to do. Additionally, "many like the idea of the criminal code serving as a kind of moral guide even if certain laws are almost never applied".

But that's a lot less powerful a missive than your screed about laws dating back to the 18th Century (hey, pop quiz, did you know that in six of those states, that crime of cheating in a marriage only applies to women?).

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#427

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:17 PM UTC

tbirdz wrote: post #295

A_COMPUTER wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty close to the same as Donald Sterling's opinion on black people, and outed gay Republicans who voted against gay equality. Even if the outing was unethical, you can't un-pull the trigger on this being public knowledge, and people become responsible for their own shitty behavior that previously was concealed. Sucks to be them. And marital infidelity is unethical even if it isn't illegal. It's pretty FUCK…

>marital infidelity is unethical even if it isn't illegal Marital infidelity is illegal in 21 states in the US, and many other countries as well. For many individuals this is not just an ethical concern, but a legal one as well.

Yes, because no politician wants to be the one who says "I propose a bill to make adultery legal. It's not an issue for the courts."

There have been less that a dozen misdemeanor prosecutions in the last half century in those 21 states combined.

So yes, in those states, it's illegal. Just as in many cases, so was homosexuality, and anal sex.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#428

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #422

FireBeyond wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Rape is not "I wouldn't have had sex with that person if I was better informed". Where does that end? "He has an STD"? "He is unfaithful"? "He cheats at poker"? "He is a bad father"? "If I'd known that, I wouldn't have had sex, therefore it wasn't consensual". (edited for grammar)

>No. Rape is not "I wouldn't have had sex with that person if I was better informed". I never said it was. I said that under some definitions that people use it is. Especially when it involves disclosing use of birth control (all cases I know of involve men lying, as that increases the biological risk of the woman, while the woman lying doesn't make the man more likely to get pregnant) and when it involves lying abou…

I think that knowingly lying about STDs is morally wrong (and in some cases, for some STDs, it -is- a crime to do so).

"Disclosing use of birth control" All the cases you know of involve "men lying"? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that. I just don't see 'putting or pretending to put on a condom and then sneaking it off unknowingly before intercourse' as being a common concern in sex/pregnancy. If I understand you correctly?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#429

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

_pmf_ wrote: post #274

harryf wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing you did it anonymously. We wouldn't want you to have to face any consequences for your actions. Let's hope you're not responsible for something like this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-dad-kills-fami...

> Let's hope you're not responsible Is the judge responsible if the delinquent hangs himself in prison?

Well, funny you should say that, because in the Aaron Schwartz case, many, many comments here on HN claimed exactly that, that the judge, prosecutor, DA were all directly responsible for his suicide.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#430

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

littletimmy wrote: post #376

the_af wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why do cheaters "deserve to be outed?". I realize you'd be enraged if someone cheated on you. So would I. But what does it matter to you what other people do with their private lives? Do you think people struggling with alcoholism also deserve to be outed and publicly humiliated?

No one is wronged in the case of alcoholism. People are wronged in the case of cheating. I don't see why cheaters should not be outed.

Oh, you're serious?

Go to the spouse, or children, of any alcoholic, drug addict.

Tell them how they've not been wronged or harmed by the actions of the addict.