The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked • Hacker News Board

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#411

Post by balls187 » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #4

tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

Putting aside her feelings of infidelity, and talk about it from the perspective of the spouse that is being cheated on.

Perhaps the people who is having the affair should be outed, but what about their spouse? Shouldn't the pain of the extra marital affair be more than enough? Now you have to add in public shame as well?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#412

Post by burkemw3 » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:47 PM UTC

illyism wrote: post #196

bagels wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know this too. I remember seeing a talk by Facebook on Youtube by their security team that they will download these datasets to see if Facebook users have used the same passwords so that they can protect accounts. It would be unfortunate if this was less than legal.

How is Facebook able to do this if the passwords are hashed in a different manner? Are they storing passwords in plain text?

The other datasets could be storing passwords in plaintext, which could be hashed using Facebook's algorithm and then compared to what Facebook stores.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#413

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

dsacco wrote: post #4

tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

One comment you could make - is she pro-life/choice? (You don't have to answer to us). Would she feel the same if she was pro-choice and Planned Parenthood's databases were compromised by religious hackers? (I know that termination is only a small percentage of what they do).

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#414

Post by moosey » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:49 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #381

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering infidelity can lead to non-consensualy exposing people to STDs and possibly lead to rape (depending upon how you define consent).

What the... How can you conflate rape with infidelity ? They are completely unrelated things! Rape is definitely a crime and an act of violence worthy of moral outrage. If you are forcing someone to have nonconsensual sex, that's terrible and totally unrelated to cheating. And you can have forced nonconsensual sex within a marriage. Seriously, rape is a completely different issue. Exposing people to STDs is a problem…

I'm not defending this position, so please don't pull out pitchforks or anything, just making an argument where this could be expanded into rape charges somewhere:

There are countries where having sex under false pretext is considered rape. For instance: saying that you are going to use a condom then removing it without the knowledge of your partner would be rape. One could argue that being in a marriage with the promise of monogamy, but failing to keep that promise, would mean that all instances of sex with your partner are then rape.

I repeat: I don't agree with this and I think that it belittles people that have actually experienced the horrors of forced rape. Perhaps there should be things protecting the victims of this situation, but calling it rape waters down the word and act. "Sexual Intercourse under False Pretenses" should have it's own set of laws and punishments around it if it should be punished, IMHO.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#415

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:52 PM UTC

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #365

the_af wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infidelity is certainly harmful to someone (emotional harm is a real thing, not to be discounted) but so is exposing people's private lives and peccadilloes. Infidelity is something that should be resolved in private by the parties involved. Whatever you do, someone will find it offensive or harmful to them, for some definition of "harmful" -- even the way you dress, or the music you listen to, or the books you read,…

Considering infidelity can lead to non-consensualy exposing people to STDs and possibly lead to rape (depending upon how you define consent).

No. Rape is not "I wouldn't have had sex with that person if I was better informed".

Where does that end? "He has an STD"? "He is unfaithful"? "He cheats at poker"? "He is a bad father"? "If I'd known that, I wouldn't have had sex, therefore it wasn't consensual".

(edited for grammar)

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#416

Post by pessimizer » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:53 PM UTC

Turn out to still be dangerous to have important, personal information about you stored by a corporation. Turns out that computers are no safer than filing cabinets. Why would we think they were?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#417

Post by Lawtonfogle » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:54 PM UTC

jnky wrote: post #380

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Homosexuality is illegal in certain countries (like Saudi Arabia) and this hack might expose people to harm in these countries. To me this is the same logic as saying that Manning/Snowden brought people to harm. Now if you already agree with that, no problem, but I wonder about people who follow this line of reasoning for this release but not for the Manning/Snowden releases.

> [...] but I wonder about people who follow this line of reasoning for this release but not for the Manning/Snowden releases. I think it would be easy to argue that the leaks of Manning and Snowden are justified because they exposed illegal and reprehensible activity from the government; an entity that should be held to the highest moral standard. Users of this site generally did nothing illegal and they wronged at…

If leaks can be justified, then it becomes a moral question of what justifies it. For some, adultery is enough to justify a leak, for others it is not (some of which do think the government wronging many people is justified). The core question is one of how bad does a leaked behavior need to be for a leak to be morally justified.

As far as it not being illegal, any moral system that determines morality based on legality is a system I find fault in.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#418

Post by tunesmith » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:55 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

I see a real, damaging increase of the "Callout Culture" in general.

Even here on hacker news, I've seen a handful of callouts in a way that used to be much rarer on discussion sites. I'm talking about the things where someone makes a comment, someone else then researches them or their history and the replies with a comment challenging them on whatever - perhaps tangentially related, but just "out of bounds" enough to be embarrassing and silencing.

More generally, it seems to be culturally acceptable these days to asymmetrically name-and-shame someone for offensive yet private and legal conduct. The thing is, it is usually difficult to defend each offender on a case-by-case basis, but it still doesn't mean it's the right thing to do to call in the anonymous hordes to attempt to ruin someone's life.

This is a clear example - chalking it up to "if they didn't want to risk exposure, they shouldn't have signed up" is right up there with "if you're not doing anything illegal, then you shouldn't have a problem with being monitored/drug-tested/whatever". Maybe there's a split in our society where one demo is completely comfortable with having all their private data out there and occasionally exposed, or to feel more communally "owned", but that doesn't mean it's right to expose someone else.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#419

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

HSO wrote: post #74

dang wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a word for things that only other people can be? The one that always comes to mind is "tourist".

Only they: terrorists Only you: freedom fighter, liberator Only they: imperialists Only you: protector Only they: baby killers Only you: collateral damage I'm sure George Carlin could come up with more expensive shots… Man, I miss him.

From Lord of War:

"Every faction in Africa calls themselves by these noble names - Liberation this, Patriotic that, Democratic Republic of something-or-other... I guess they can't own up to what they usually are: the Federation of Worse Oppressors Than the Last Bunch of Oppressors. Often, the most barbaric atrocities occur when both combatants proclaim themselves Freedom Fighters."

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#420

Post by Lawtonfogle » Wed, Aug 19, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

peejaybee wrote: post #409

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr: In this case, it is the people killing gays who are at fault for gays being killed. I see three parts. Engaging in gay relationships, the hackers releasing data, and the people who do the stoning. In the Manning/Snowden case, there are also three parts. The US doing bad things, Manning/Snowden releasing it, and other governments reacting. Now, in the Snowden/Manning case, media tries to place blame for 3 on 2…

Let's say that the star-bellied Sneetches are rounding up the plain-bellied Sneetches and sending them to -- well, you're not exactly sure where they're sending them, but none of them have ever come back. Needless to say, the plain-bellied Sneetches don't think much of being rounded up, so they hide. A few star-bellied Sneetches sympathize with the plight of the plain-bellied Sneetches, and help them hide. Your neigh…

>It's the fault of those damn star-bellied Sneetches.

Is it any less their fault if they find out via the National Sneetch Agency than if you tell them? I wouldn't think so.

So is it any your fault? Is blame like a pie such that if someone has 100% of it, everyone else must have 0%? Or is it limitless, where two people can be 100% to blame?

As you said, if we do think snitches are to blame, it does leave Snowden and Manning to be blamed. Maybe it is worth it, but they are still to blame.