Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

koreatimesus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 76 posts

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#61

Post by pikeymick »

rdudek wrote: post #59
ProblemFactory wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that most of these are a science journalism thing: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd051809s.gif For example, there was news recently about a breakthrough discovery of a -70C superconductor. The media spun it as if loss-free electricity transport and maglev trains are just around the corner. But in reality, this material (Hydrogen Sulfide) required 2 million atmospheres of pressure for superconductin…

But a -70C superconductor could theoretically be used in space environment where the temperatures are even colder, no?

You still have to reproduce the immense pressure.

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#62

Post by science4sail »

rdudek wrote: post #59
ProblemFactory wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that most of these are a science journalism thing: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd051809s.gif For example, there was news recently about a breakthrough discovery of a -70C superconductor. The media spun it as if loss-free electricity transport and maglev trains are just around the corner. But in reality, this material (Hydrogen Sulfide) required 2 million atmospheres of pressure for superconductin…

But a -70C superconductor could theoretically be used in space environment where the temperatures are even colder, no?

Space is "cold", but the problem is that it's hard to get rid of waste heat in space since you aren't surrounding by a heat-carrying fluid (air). Therefore a -70c superconductor would still require a large cooling apparatus to function properly.

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#63

Post by ZenoArrow »

ctdonath wrote: post #57
imglorp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What seems to be the trouble getting some of these to market? There seems to plenty of demand. Is this a "Who Killed the Electric Car" conspiracy thing? A VC thing? Or a vaporware/chemistry-is-hard thing?

What seems to be the trouble getting some of these to market? Science.

... & engineering. Even if the science is well understood, the processes required to mass produce it at a cost that will make it competitive in the marketplace are not always a given.

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#64

Post by marcosdumay »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #47

I have "battery breakthrough fatigue" so announcing a lab result isn't really going to get me excited. A licensing deal and a factory being built, much more exciting. Interesting challenge of the terms indefinite and infinite. I read it as batteries that may die may not after every action (which would actually be indeterminate batteries :-)) rather than an infinite number of cycles.

Well, so yawn because this is announcing a simulation result. The lab one will probably come in a few years.

(Now, if I could find the article I read yesterday that explaining their current status...)

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#65

Post by jessaustin »

tade wrote: post #4
intrasight wrote: post #2

Not sure if this is the same "breakthrough" https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/yolks-and-shells-improve-rec... It was also discussed in The Economist this week. Batter tech has been stuck in a rut for a long time so it's great news that better tech is in the way.

It's not the same. This is the MIT press release https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/solid-state-rechargeable-bat...

This really should be the link for this whole thread. First, it has some actual interesting details. Second, it hasn't been round-tripped through Google Translate.

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#66

Post by marcosdumay »

asuffield wrote: post #41

My immediate observation is that "indefinite" means "unknown", not "unlimited". I'm not sure this is the word they wanted to use, but it may be a more accurate description.

With a solid electrolyte, it means "we are not aware of any process that will limit their lifetime - but it must die some day".

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#67

Post by ZenoArrow »

davnicwil wrote: post #5
intrasight wrote: post #2

Not sure if this is the same "breakthrough" https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2015/yolks-and-shells-improve-rec... It was also discussed in The Economist this week. Batter tech has been stuck in a rut for a long time so it's great news that better tech is in the way.

It's been so stuck in a rut, relative to the demands of what we use it for, that it'd seem utterly magical for it to improve dramatically. Imagine being able to use a laptop, or a phone, for days without plugging in. Seems completely impossible now, and my mental model of power usage vs battery drain is so set at this point that I think I'd have a really hard time trusting a vastly better battery to really work, even…

> "It's been so stuck in a rut, relative to the demands of what we use it for, that it'd seem utterly magical for it to improve dramatically."

Sure, it'd be nice to have a sudden jump in battery capacity, but I think it's important to recognise that batteries have been getting better, just through incremental improvements rather than big leaps. This graph shows the change in battery density (between 2007 and 2013) and battery cost (between 2008 and 2013):

https://onclimatechangepolicydotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014...

"Source: US DoE report published as part of their EV programme."

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#68

Post by pyre »

creshal wrote: post #31
Zarathustra30 wrote: post #30

Toyota already made a prototype solid-state last year. https://ecs.confex.com/ecs/imlb2014/webprogram/Paper33467.ht...

Battery prototypes are a dime a dozen, but none ever seem to reach the market.

> none ever seem to reach the market

All batteries that you use today were (obviously) prototypes at some point in time. But you don't wait to prototype something until it's a done deal, you prototype to test. Are you really complaining that there isn't a higher success rate for all battery tests that are done?

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#69

Post by dghughes »

science4sail wrote: post #62
rdudek wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a -70C superconductor could theoretically be used in space environment where the temperatures are even colder, no?

Space is "cold", but the problem is that it's hard to get rid of waste heat in space since you aren't surrounding by a heat-carrying fluid (air). Therefore a -70c superconductor would still require a large cooling apparatus to function properly.

Yeah that threw me too when I thought the same thing I never thought about how difficult it would be to get rid of heat in space I figured just let it go out into space not thinking there isn't anything to send the heat into; no medium.

NASA has a nice info page about it:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/as...

Re: MIT discovers batteries with indefinite lifetimes using solid-state-electrolytes

#70

Post by beltex »

Exciting!

”My top advice really for anyone who says they got some breakthrough battery technologies is please send us a sample cell. Don’t send us PowerPoint, ok, just send us one cell that works with all appropriate caveats, that would be great. That sorts out the nonsense and the claims that aren’t actually true. Talk is super cheap. The battery industry has to have more BS in it than any industry I’ve ever encountered, it’s insane.”

Elon Musk

https://youtu.be/TzquC0USTEA?t=19m8s

Post reply on HN