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My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

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Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#211
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What labor laws do you find insane?

I heard the daily complaints from a person attempting to handle restructuring at a major UK bank. Let me emphasize that the restructuring was ordered by parliament, who also happened to own most of the bank. Various difficulties: - Work councils get input in whether you can lay someone off - it's a far cry from at-will employment. - Pretty insane laws surrounding pregnancy - you have give a pregnant woman the option…

India is great.

Said no worker ever.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#212

Somewhat off topic perhaps, but what exactly does therapy do? Has anyone here had therapy? If so, can they explain how talking to a psychologist cures a medical condition? Is it significantly different from talking to a priest or a faith healer?

> Is it significantly different from talking to a priest or a faith healer?

* Faith healers are priests aren't trained in the myriad forms of double blind tested, peer reviewed techniques that can be used to help manage or reduce stress and emotional pain.

* Therapists don't just listen. They talk. They make suggestions - ranging from everything from common sense things that may have more weight because they are coming from a medical professional, to recommending aggressive routines and techniques (meditation, diet change, medication, group therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, changes in routine, sleep patterns) that require the active participation of the patient and, over time, are shown, in double blind, peer reviewed studies, to have positive impacts. You aren't just paying some asshole to listen to you.

* A therapist, with years of training, is often able to easily identify stressors of which you are unaware, and separate out stressors that are present in the environment (your shitty, shitty job) vs. the result of old emotional trauma (e.g. horrible parenting) vs. personality disorders (borderline personality, OCD) vs. mental illness (schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder) and can figure out a plan tailored to your needs. This may involve a combination of different types of therapy (there are many, and many types of 'talk' therapy actually are vastly different when viewed from the inside), in some instances, medication, and in most instances, figuring out how to make changes in your life to reduce stressors.

A therapist isn't just a black hole into whom you throw your problems. A therapist is a medical expert who has deep knowledge of personality and mental disorders, knowledge of pro-active methods of combating both, and acts as a medically informed, objective 'life coach.'

I mean, damn, what does a physical trainer do if not just talk to you? Why not go to a priest or faith healer to get your calves real swole? What does a financial advisor do if not just talk to you? Why not go to a priest or a faith healer to manage your 401k?

The ignorance displayed at this:

> If so, can they explain how talking to a psychologist cures a medical condition?

Is just sort of flabbergasting. Not all the reasons you go to a therapist are for medical conditions; many therapists are MDs; therapy doesn't just consist of talking to someone; like any other field, it has tons of study and many experts, people who know better than you do, and quite often it helps to talk to an expert.

If that comes off as harsh - I apologize - especially if you are someone who is on the fence about therapy. I sincerely suspect, however, you are not, and, instead, just assaulting the idea that therapy is even remotely a worthwhile pursuit. It is.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#213
I work for a company in Seattle whose technical employees are getting picked off by Amazon. Amazon offers probably 25-50% more in salary for similar positions, and we also can't compete with their equity offering. But in exchange for all that money, you have to work probably at least 50% more hours, tolerate weaker boundaries between your work life and personal life, and deal with a whole lot more stress. It's a trade-off that some people are willing to make, and others aren't. But what really sucks is that the real estate market is getting to the point where you need an Amazon salary just to afford a house in Seattle.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#214

Looking at this story (the wider Amazon story) it seems to me a lot of the value is getting extracted from employees in a sort of creeping way. So you might go to an interview where the manager says there's pager duty now and again, but it's not too intense. You get on the job, and it's a whole lot more intense than expected. You can't leave because you've just turned down a bunch of other offers and moved towns. You…

There is no recourse for this because IT workers do not have to be (legally) paid overtime. Remove that legality and enforce overtime to be paid at 1.5x regular wage, and you should see a better workplace and higher employment. I think productivity numbers will also be realistic (lower).

The legality of uncompensated overtime drives me crazy. There is a lot that practitioners in our profession have yet to learn - valuing ourselves and what we do.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#215

Ok, so Amazon is a turd of an employer. The question in my mind is how do we stop this abuse? Do we (as workers) put out a letter that asks for net average 40 hour weeks and ask companies to sign on to it? Do we keep naming and shaming like this? Or?

I turned down my Amazon offer saying you are stock vesting plan is unfair. The recruiter's comeback was "We are all leaders here!"

At least I tried.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#216
post #192

> When our first daughter was about a month old, my husband was asked to go on a business trip. I imagine he could have turned that down, but I was insistent that he go so that his managers would not worry that his home life was impacting his work ethic. This is the Amazon way, after all. It was also one of the loneliest weeks of my life. Amazon seems to have serious issues, but this one is on the employee/spouse. If…

> so that his managers would not worry that his home life was impacting his work ethic It isn't on the employee/spouse; this is why you have managers that sometimes have to tell employees to go home. We're so fearful of losing our jobs that we bend over backwards for employers. This is what happens when employers have an advantage. > I know some upper management probably look down on this So your boss is fine with it…

> this is why you have managers that sometimes have to tell employees to go home.

Good managers can spot when this is needed. But if the employee is telling the manager that everything is fine and isn't showing signs of home stress, I don't blame the manager.

> Why should it keep you from becoming VP of engineering? That's messed up.

I think most companies are going to value and reward those who put in extra time consistently over those who don't.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#217
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose a similar route because of perks and pay. My only fear is this choice hurting my future employment when I'll likely be discriminated due to age. I would imagine having Google or Facebook on my resume would surely make getting a job at age 50+ much easier.

That might sound crazy but on a software engineering salary, you can retire before 50 if you get used to spending little on food, transportation and shelter. My most favorite online resource on how to live frugally is this: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/how-i-became-financially-i... .

I've never understood the logic of giving up the things you enjoy in life to gain time in the future to enjoy life.

I'm all for frugal but life isn't a dress rehearsal.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#218
I guess I thought this was common knowledge. I've stayed away from working at Amazon for a while now based on stories from other tech people I know. It's not a top-tier place to work outside of AWS and the opportunities aren't really that great either. Maybe the pay is good? I've heard it's not competitive even.

I know how it is though - people want the stamp of a top company on their resume. They also want to succeed.

I blame the husband just a tiny bit - for not saying 'no' earlier. Ironically, he might not have been fired if he put a line in the sand earlier. He probably did underperform because he wasn't managing the manager's expectations properly.

Of course, he might have gotten fired anyway - nobody will ever know.

Work is tough - and unfortunately companies like Amazon aren't "buffering the core" very well. These are engineers who might not be good at managing expectations or managing or leadership even - but why stress them out if they're otherwise super-useful to the company? Employees who can't handle this stress but are otherwise valuable should be cradled and they'll perform better for longer - pretty simple really.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#219
post #74
post #40

I have a four-week rotation on-call where I work. Pretty much the same workload as discussed in the article with it. Calls and text messages at 3am, can't be more than 15 minutes away from an internet connection (remote desktop software on Android is a godsend.) While it doesn't feel unbearable, and pays fairly well (at least for the area I'm in), it definitely has completely destroyed my sleep schedule. I no longer…

You CAN quit. We are in an industry where you have to dodge recruiters trying to tackle you on your way to get coffee if you have any technical skill. Recruiters that represent companies capable of paying your mortgage and some probably well needed vacations. Personally I have folded companies, quit jobs, and turned away opprotunities that represented substantially more than I make now. People have called these choic…

> You CAN quit. We are in an industry where you have to dodge recruiters trying to tackle you on your way to get coffee if you have any technical skill. Recruiters that represent companies capable of paying your mortgage and some probably well needed vacations.

Some of us can quit. Amazon employees in Seattle are probably in a better position than most in this respect, but many people in this industry are not so lucky.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#220
post #218

I guess I thought this was common knowledge. I've stayed away from working at Amazon for a while now based on stories from other tech people I know. It's not a top-tier place to work outside of AWS and the opportunities aren't really that great either. Maybe the pay is good? I've heard it's not competitive even. I know how it is though - people want the stamp of a top company on their resume. They also want to succee…

>people want the stamp of a top company on their resume.

I hate how valuable stuff like this is to hiring managers. If you asked me to pick between the guy who spent a year at Amazon or the guy who ran his own startup soup-to-nuts for a year, I'd rather go with the startup guy. Its crazy that we have this informal pseudo-classist system of "people who worked at AAA shops" vs "nobodies." Are HR departments and hiring managers really this dense?

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