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My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

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Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#171
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MBA thinks "cheap as possible" - so two devs and a dog sounds like a reasonable budget, even if it means stuff doesn't quite work and employees get broken. The real poison is MBA culture. It's literally insane in most normal human senses.

This . It's easy to shift the blame to faceless Amazon and pretend "the company" is at fault. It's not. The people who are running the company (and I'm not referring strictly to top management here) are the ones with the blatant disregard for their employees. This is not a result of some inherent forces our Universe suddenly concentrating over Amazon. They're the result of business decisions. A bunch of people wearin…

Tell me, if it was your money being invested, would you act differently?

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#172
post #28
post #25

>With warehouses around the globe, my husband would get paged to fix problems in China in the middle of the night, in the UK in the wee hours of the morning, and then in the Kentucky warehouse during work hours. I worked at a company that wrote warehouse management software, and this definitely isn't unique to Amazon. When your software has a serious problem the company is losing a million dollars an hour, so they're…

If it's so critical, why doesn't the company hire a larger team to do this and rotate people around in well defined shifts?

You don't get bonuses and promoted for spending a lot of money. You do for having a lean, mean team. A $10 Million outage event? "That's Sally's fault, she is letting her cancer distract her, I'll fire her in the morning. CFO: Great leadership Roger, I'll pencil you in for another $200K bonus!"

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#173
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's happening across the world at the moment isn't it? Doesn't seem to be linked to the demise of unions. Admittedly, there needs to be a new version of unions, the next evolution. We need the next Marx to bring the pendulum back.

demise of unions The demise of unions is also a general phenomenon across the western world. It's not helped by the migration of lots of factory industries to parts of the world without strong unions and with plenty of hungry workers. Ultimately unions have only one effective negotiating tool: the strike. And if it's easy to replace striking workers, it's not an effective tool. It's also very disruptive (in the bad s…

> plenty of hungry workers.

aka a reserve army of labour, just on a global scale. It's the XI century but Engels still makes quite a bit of sense when you think about it.

However you look at it, the game is still fundamentally the same; it's just that one side can play it so much better than the other. It's like that period in the '90s when football clubs using the offside trap and applying pressure up the pitch dominated the European scene.

> Ultimately unions have only one effective negotiating tool: the strike.

That's not correct. Striking is the only legal negotiating tool; but it's not always been legal, nor the only tool. Striking is a type of industrial sabotage; being the most innocuous one, it's the only one that was made legal (and even there, its legal deployment has been progressively restricted in most countries since the '80s). If shit really hits the fan, a compact unionized workforce can do much more damage than "down tools". We've forgotten a lot about industrial relations, sooner or later we'll have to relearn old lessons.

> UK public opinion turned against unions when they rationed electricity to 3 days a week.

That's a problem for public services only (most recently, with the London tube). Unions in public sector and public services refuse to understand that their exposure damages the whole movement. It's a historical issue in most countries, a huge strategic problem for any progressive movement.

Most private companies likely wouldn't get public support in a fight with unions, but because public-service ones can (and will) abuse their role, the whole movement gets a bad rep.

> A lot of people have cited Piketty as the next Marx

Unfortunately, with all due respect, Piketty's contribution is nowhere as significant as Marx. Piketty tried to prove what a lot of people suspected, but I don't think he managed to reveal so many new elements about the structure of the game in the same way as Marx did, nor did he articulate solutions as powerfully as Marx did. Besides, there is little point in waiting for a messiah; what is required is a combination of analysis and prognosis that can resonate with an atomized and oevereducated white-collar workforce.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#174
post #113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just turned down an offer because of something like this. I went through a bunch of interviews and things seemed pretty peachy, until I interviewed with a guy (who'd have been a peer) who was probably way more candid than management would've liked. He said things like "I haven't gotten a raise in five years so make sure you negotiate hard when you come in", "I got an apartment close to the office so I can be here q…

> I just turned down an offer because of something like this. One question, was this offer from amazon? I mean, are the things the guy said for amazon?

No, it was a financial services firm (a big one, with about 45,000 employees globally).

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#175

I'm quite surprised that of all the famous Silicon Valley people, and their rallying behind Jeff Bezos, no one seems to believe that some part of these many many stories could be true. Either that, or they seem to think that only incompetent people are complaining. Therefore I must post part of my comment I posted here [1]. One of my good friend, who was suffering at Amazon, is thriving at Google. He's done amazingly…

Presumably they imagine that they might need to do a deal with Amazon in the future, or get a job there.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#176
post #40

I have a four-week rotation on-call where I work. Pretty much the same workload as discussed in the article with it. Calls and text messages at 3am, can't be more than 15 minutes away from an internet connection (remote desktop software on Android is a godsend.) While it doesn't feel unbearable, and pays fairly well (at least for the area I'm in), it definitely has completely destroyed my sleep schedule. I no longer…

On-call is not the norm, nor to be expected. I've worked over a dozen jobs easily in this industry and not a single one has had an on-call requirement for any amount of time, let alone throughout the night. This will not be the case as much for ops people, but even then it's possible to find jobs that don't have an on-call requirement. Your mistake is thinking this is expected and putting up with it. Sleep is my most precious asset and to be on call 24/7, even once a month, would require at least a 50% raise for me. Though I have to say, if I was in your position and had a job lined up, I'd definitely wait until you were paged at 3am and respond by quitting. Seems like the only just way to go ...

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#177
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chose a similar route because of perks and pay. My only fear is this choice hurting my future employment when I'll likely be discriminated due to age. I would imagine having Google or Facebook on my resume would surely make getting a job at age 50+ much easier.

That might sound crazy but on a software engineering salary, you can retire before 50 if you get used to spending little on food, transportation and shelter. My most favorite online resource on how to live frugally is this: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/how-i-became-financially-i... .

I think that retiring before 50 is not the solution to unemployment after 50, although the idea of living frugally so you can retire early seems great until you try it.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#178
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just turned down an offer because of something like this. One question, was this offer from amazon? I mean, are the things the guy said for amazon?

Why does that matter? He is drawing a personal story that is comparable to the Amazon story, trying to describe his ability to find the proper work culture for his life. I am not trying to argue, just wish your two questions had a reasoning behind them as in writing they sound harsh to me.

The only reasoning I can think of is if it's widespread at Amazon or certain locations / departments are affected like that? It could be an interesting insight research to see how wide-spread such employer behavior is.

I remember working for Van Blarcom Closures in NYC over 10 years ago. During interviews they said standard 40 hour weeks with occasional overtime. Except their occasional overtime meant every day was a 12 hour shift with some Saturday's and Sundays's as well. Let's just say, I didn't last more than 6 months there before moving out.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#179
post #70
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am currently the head of a two person ops team, so we effectively share on-call all the time. In reality as the buck stops with me I am on call constantly. It's a drag and I really wish I hadn't been backed into this corner (partly my fault, partly the company). With that said; my Fiancee is a trainee nurse. She works three thirteen hour shifts a week. Which totally destroys your sleep pattern. Working two thirteen…

Yeah, I am constantly amazed and terrified of the kinds of shifts doctors and nurses do. I really do not understand how they manage to not make mistakes in such an environment. In Grey's Anatomy, you often see people taking a couple of hours sleep mid shift; is this generally accurate?

They make a ton of mistakes. This is by far, the worst feature of the American health care system and it shows up as bad care, lives lost, and huge costs. Every single American who pays for healthcare is essentially fucked by our ridiculous system. And this is a system set up by doctors, mind you, doctors that should and do know better.

Re: My husband needed therapy after working for Amazon

#180
If Jeff is reading this: hopefully it should be apparent that these stories of constant out-of-hours calls indicate incompetent management. Note I'm not talking about the "human" side of this (obviously that's pretty bad), but rather this is just bad engineering, bad management, bad business. If you've built software that generates constant support escalations when deployed, you need to fix that software so it does not do so! If it turns out the software is working just fine but the humans involved like to call people all the time, then arrange for some people to be in the office during working hours (heck, which continents does Amazon NOT have offices in??) to soothe them. Or perhaps fire the people who like to make unnecessary support calls. My point: this all indicates a very broken process and the process is the thing that needs to be fixed, rather than "being nicer" about the fact that your developer needs to be no more than 15 minutes from a WiFi network...

Disclosure: I'm part of a small team that runs a high-availability service, without constant middle-of-the-night alerts..

Also, I am a long-time AMZN stock holder.

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