Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices • Hacker News Board

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#131

Post by modfodder » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 3:59 PM UTC

anotherangrydev wrote: post #119

richmarr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once got fired because I told some bitch... In that one line I think there's two issues you might want to think about. First of all, you're passing judgement apparently without empathising with where she's coming from. If you try to empathise with people rather than letting your amygdala control your response then you'll find life gets much easier. Secondly, that language crosses the line of acceptability, both i…

Rich, you know what dignity is? Dignity is being the same person disregarding the situation where you're currently involved. I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct, with a perfect vocabulary and behavior for even the most adverse situations in life. I really, really hope your life crosses path with a woman like that one and you end up in a situation like mine. I would like to see you han…

No, dignity is not being the same person regardless of the situation. An asshole who is always an asshole doesn't have dignity, he's just an asshole.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#132

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

abandonliberty wrote: post #113

cperciva wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist to protect the company, not you. Sure, but that doesn't mean that they can't be on your side. If you report that your boss is doing something which is against company policy and hurts the company, it's quite possible for HR to be simultaneously on your side and on the company's side.

Yes - but be careful about the equation, it's something like this: (Your value + cost of incident - squeaky wheel cost) vs (manager's value) The incident has to be fairly egregious to tip the scales in your favor, and the squeaky wheel cost can follow you.

That is why a last alternative is to suggest you might go public, it forces their hand because now "cost of incident" can be rather high. As it is PR damage all across the board for the company. Of course, it might fix things in the short term but it won't be forgotten in the long term.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#133

Post by dpark » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:03 PM UTC

anotherangrydev wrote: post #119

richmarr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once got fired because I told some bitch... In that one line I think there's two issues you might want to think about. First of all, you're passing judgement apparently without empathising with where she's coming from. If you try to empathise with people rather than letting your amygdala control your response then you'll find life gets much easier. Secondly, that language crosses the line of acceptability, both i…

Rich, you know what dignity is? Dignity is being the same person disregarding the situation where you're currently involved. I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct, with a perfect vocabulary and behavior for even the most adverse situations in life. I really, really hope your life crosses path with a woman like that one and you end up in a situation like mine. I would like to see you han…

> Politely but firmly told her ... Fuck off

Your story makes you sound abrasive and unpleasant. If the story played out the way you tell it, she obviously was a bad actor and did something terrible. (And yes, there are definitely some people who will play control games with any little bit of power they gain.) It's difficult to sympathize with you, though, when even your telling of the story makes you sound difficult to work with.

If you're presenting yourself this way in a work environment (or anywhere, really), you will create negative interactions.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#134

Post by happywolf » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #4

> But if you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at jeff@amazon.com. Even if it’s rare or isolated, our tolerance for any such lack of empathy needs to be zero. I say don't escalate to HR but leave to work at another place. HR is not your advocate, it is not there to help you. You are just a "resource" just like it says in the name. There have been man…

Agree with all the other folks on the importance not to seek help from HR. Am working in an MNC in Singapore. HR's chief objective is to protect the company. The only time it helps the employees is when something will hinder productivity or/and morale. Period. Whether you are happy, achieving work-life balance, fulfilled, etc. It doesn't give a fuck on all those. If an Amazonian approaches HR now to report an issue covered by NYT, that person very likely will be grilled and interrogated to see if he/she spoke to NYT.

So Jeff is right. If you are not happy, dust off books and study on your own on skills needed for interviews, shut up and move out.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#135

Post by School-Cotton » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

OnleMeMeMe wrote: post #54

As if Jeff is reading jeff@amazon.com - would be the first enterprise CEO I know who reads his mail instead of a web of (personal) assistants.

From what I can gather, he reads anything sent from another internal (@amazon.com) address personally. Stuff from outside probably goes to assistants.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#136

Post by lightbritefight » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:04 PM UTC

binxbolling wrote: post #106

balls187 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other things as well that are pretty important: Recruiting, performance reviews, and visa sponsorships. I personally would hate to setup interview loops, having to manage calendars and book rooms, and the amount of paperwork required to hire a candidate that is not a US Resident, boy that would suck too.

...and training, succession planning, workforce planning, onboarding, offboarding, retention and attrition, re-locations, HRIS management, coaching, etc. Not sure most people really understand what HR does, just as HR arguably doesn't understand what a developer does.

I think a lot people have had very different experience as to what HR does. It can range from the above, to "very little." Its this nebulousness that really accounts for the variety of opinions.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#137

Post by ryanobjc » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

sagivo wrote: post #11

I'm in the process of joining Amazon as a software engineer manager. I don't know how to respond to this article and if to continue the process with them.

I'd skip it. I worked there for 5 years and hitting that mark was a big deal. A vp used to give bronzed Nike shoes for the 5 year anniversary. Also he stopped before I got one.

The article picks some of the most egregious stories but look beyond the horror stories and try to see the culture there. I've heard they've been trying to fix it, but I'm pretty sure that wilke or bezos still yell in the weekly business review meetings on a regular basis. Do you want to work in a 5% margin environment that is a retailer and you get yelled at?

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#138

Post by wf » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:12 PM UTC

anotherangrydev wrote: post #119

richmarr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once got fired because I told some bitch... In that one line I think there's two issues you might want to think about. First of all, you're passing judgement apparently without empathising with where she's coming from. If you try to empathise with people rather than letting your amygdala control your response then you'll find life gets much easier. Secondly, that language crosses the line of acceptability, both i…

Rich, you know what dignity is? Dignity is being the same person disregarding the situation where you're currently involved. I see you standing here as a person who is always polite and correct, with a perfect vocabulary and behavior for even the most adverse situations in life. I really, really hope your life crosses path with a woman like that one and you end up in a situation like mine. I would like to see you han…

Normally I would steer clear of interjecting in something like this, however, you know that's basically the opposite of what dignity means, right? Dignity is recognizing the formality of a situation and acting respectfully to yourself and others in it.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#139

Post by taternuts » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:19 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #114

adventured wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Amazon (3.4) rates comparable on Glassdoor to many other important technology companies, including: Oracle (3.3), Yahoo (3.5), HP (3.3), IBM (3.1), eBay (3.5), Tesla (3.4), Dell (3.4), Cisco (3.7). That's with 5,800+ reviews. Something doesn't add up.

How reliable is glassdoor as a metric? Personally, I would never, ever post anything negative there due to the fear of retaliation. I suspect truly bad companies never get their comeuppance because at the end of the day, you need some kind of reference and positive job history from your previous employer. It may not be that hard to trace a review to a specific employee due to timing, title, salary, etc information.

I've seen plenty of instances where the Glassdor listings were really a red flag. In these cases, there are several negative reviews focusing on similar cons, then several other glowing (and obviously planted) reviews to combat it.

Re: Jeff Bezos Says Amazon Won’t Tolerate ‘Callous’ Management Practices

#140

Post by qihqi » Mon, Aug 17, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

As an exAmazonian I think Amazon treated me decently. I ultimately left for some place that treat me even better (with free food and better pay); but I did not believe that I am entitled to those perks. Judging by life of the few Amazonians I know personally, most of them agree with me. I only know one person who complained heavily about Amazon and it is more about his team and having a crappy boss than about the company.