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Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#161

Post by hebdo »

technojunkie wrote: post #155
hebdo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be one of the real costs of upgrading to the latest version of Windows. In this case your mom has to pay the bills, but in general I'm curious how long will it take for ISPs to launch a solid campaign against Microsoft, like they did with Netflix.

How is this a real cost, is there an estimate of how many bytes are sent and received and at what interval? If it was anywhere in the thousands of megabytes regularly, maybe that's the real cost but that's just an assumption.

Not quite sure what is your point here. The amount of megabytes transferred each month does not have to be any particular fixed number to become a burden for the user, or the ISP. We can see that at least in one case (and probably many more) such a cost can exceed $200. All of this without user's consent.

Microsoft, please get your stuff together. Hire some privacy aware people.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#162

Post by mark_l_watson »

I was downvoted and criticised a few days ago for defending Microsoft on Windows 10. I am starting to change my opinion after looking into the issue more. I watched a recent Richard Stallman talk on youtube and went through the process of making the tightest privacy settings I could on my iPad, Windows 10 laptop, and Android phone. (I left my Mac and Linux laptops as is since I just use those for development.)

I think that Microsoft looked at the Google Now user experience on Android phones and decided to emulate that type of AI assistent in Windows. Google collects all sorts of user context information and Microsoft decided to do the same.

This is a guess but the difference may be that (some) people are willing to have less privacy on their smartphones but care more about privacy on their computers.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#163

Post by noja »

ikeboy wrote: post #157
datainplace wrote: post #146

Stupid question, but my Mom lives in a really rural area. Pays quite a bit for internet and is charged by the MB. Can we ask Microsoft to pay for their bandwidth usage? Since upgrading to Windows 10 she's been hit with $200 in overages.

Did she set the connection as "metered"? I know some things stop then. The $200 is likely from the automatic updates, which were pretty big. How much extra in MB was it?

It's likely from the automatic _sharing_ of automatic updates.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#164

Post by PythonicAlpha »

Silhouette wrote: post #156
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice, if it would be that easy. See my answer here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10055866 Can you name examples, where big corporations got "Serious" penalties for privacy issues? I don't know any. I only know, that in Germany, we always say, how important the issue is, but at least under our current government, privacy issues and the officers are laughed at by the big politicians. They might say…

Can you name examples, where big corporations got "Serious" penalties for privacy issues? Not yet, but I would argue that's because organisations like Google and Facebook have changed their behaviour when challenged to avoid things going that far. However, Europe has imposed heavy fines in the past on the likes of Microsoft, and various nations in Europe have also formally investigated and taken legal action against…

Right. Investigations. But most of them are settled with a rather small fee for the corporations or with some small changes in the behavior (like the browser selection screen, that already was changed again in Windows 10, as much I heard).

That are the cosmetic changes I mentioned. I know nobody in the EU, that really wants to mess to much with the big corporations (I mean, the really big ones). And privacy concerns are mostly laughed at -- in Germany, the government itself even forces new privacy troubles without need on the people (like the "smart meter" or the "health card").

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#165

Post by datainplace »

ikeboy wrote: post #157
datainplace wrote: post #146

Stupid question, but my Mom lives in a really rural area. Pays quite a bit for internet and is charged by the MB. Can we ask Microsoft to pay for their bandwidth usage? Since upgrading to Windows 10 she's been hit with $200 in overages.

Did she set the connection as "metered"? I know some things stop then. The $200 is likely from the automatic updates, which were pretty big. How much extra in MB was it?

I think at this point she's has closer to a gig of data. Honestly the only thing I can think is that the download itself plus seeding it to other computers nearby got her to that number. But that's a guess.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#166

Post by kuschku »

PixelB wrote: post #112
kuschku wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an image link to your image that actually fucking works: http://i.imgur.com/i4ydV1a.png

His link worked for me.

His link requires javascript and decrypts on device. Additionally, it overrides the browsers zoom behaviour and makes it impossible to view the image in a new tab seperately.

The link of the comment I replied to was just as bad as the sites that block right-clicking.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#167

Post by kuschku »

ultramancool wrote: post #132
antsar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of client-side crypto in a browser? Can't you be served backdoored JavaScript that no longer does proper encryption, and you'd be none the wiser?

Yeah, you have to trust the site and their providers of course. But how do you know your OS provider doesn't serve you backdoored updates? Until it was abused by malware, Windows Update used to accept stuff signed by a 512-bit RSA key. Do you personally reverse engineer every binary you accept? This will change soon though, they're working on browser extensions which will keep all content client side too. EDIT: Clari…

Which is all nice, but doesn’t make it better that the site is almost unusable.

A better solution would be decrypting the image and then loading the image into an image tag with a data: uri in base64 encoding.

I could zoom normally with the browsers own zoom tools, I could right-click save normally, etc.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#168

Post by tedunangst »

irq-1 wrote: post #100
blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

> If I don't know what it's doing, how can I trust it? It's not enough to examine software: if you don't trust the company , then anything they say or promise is worthless. Automatic updates can change anything, including the TOS! This is the same company that sells a 1984-Telescreen (XBox) with an always-on camera and microphone. _NSA shouldn't be forgotten. Oracle likes to tout Java as GPL, but what does that matte…

What shouldn't we forget about _NSA?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#169

Post by [deleted] »

kuschku wrote: post #167
ultramancool wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you have to trust the site and their providers of course. But how do you know your OS provider doesn't serve you backdoored updates? Until it was abused by malware, Windows Update used to accept stuff signed by a 512-bit RSA key. Do you personally reverse engineer every binary you accept? This will change soon though, they're working on browser extensions which will keep all content client side too. EDIT: Clari…

Which is all nice, but doesn’t make it better that the site is almost unusable. A better solution would be decrypting the image and then loading the image into an image tag with a data: uri in base64 encoding. I could zoom normally with the browsers own zoom tools, I could right-click save normally, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#170

Post by cmurf »

datainplace wrote: post #146

Stupid question, but my Mom lives in a really rural area. Pays quite a bit for internet and is charged by the MB. Can we ask Microsoft to pay for their bandwidth usage? Since upgrading to Windows 10 she's been hit with $200 in overages.

It hasn't even been out that long, so what kind of data amount are we talking about? Century Links 1Gbps has told multiple friends, and friends of friends that they absolutely enforce the 250GB/month limit. That's 33.33 minutes @ 1Gbps before you've hit the cap. That's untenable. XBox games are hitting 100GB each. And now the OS is pushing and pulling maybe 10% of this cap? Umm, yeah, good luck with that.
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