Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#91

Post by pmelendez » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

t0mbstone wrote: post #79

enqk wrote: post #67

This highlights what we really lost when consumer operating systems started replacing enterprise-grade operating systems. I would have never imagined this kind of things happening on something like Solaris or Irix, which were the base operating systems of many workstations. At some point when Linux became popular it suggested that the regular consumer would benefit from the robustness, focus, reliability of an entrep…

Would you let the creator of your fridge eat some of your food, if they gave you the fridge for free?

That analogy doesn't hold up... if any it would be if you'd let the creator of the fridge to see which food are you putting in so it can tell Amazon and offering you similar items.

And then you would decide if you take advantage of that or if you would not use it because of fear that the fridge would be sharing more than just the items you bought.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#92

Post by pmelendez » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

calvin_ wrote: post #82

irixusr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In canada that's a big concern

Maybe in Ontario. It's uncapped out east.

Not even... I am on an uncapped plan in Ontario.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#93

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

mondoshawan wrote: post #89

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean China literally doesn't stop. Every college, every department, they're all under attack, all the time. Whether it's sanctioned cyber-theft by the Chinese government or one of their thousands of "patriot hackers" they are ALWAYS trying to penetrate our networks and steal our research, personnel information, and so on. This is an indisputable fact, and my university is not alone.

Can you not block all incoming traffic from China assigned blocks?

A lot of these attempts come through proxies. Shut one down, another comes in its place.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#94

Post by kuschku » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #49

blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

I've been trying to use a software firewall and here's what I've blocked so far... https://up1.ca/#JQqL3y0xqLZnxaOlYQ0s6A And this is on a machine running Enterprise with privacy settings cranked, and most stuff disabled via group policy. I'm trying to avoid blocking updates, but svchost is still out there talking to random microsoft servers. The worst part is that I can't differentiate between the servers used for t…

Here’s an image link to your image that actually fucking works: http://i.imgur.com/i4ydV1a.png

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#95

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #49

blackbeard wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

I've been trying to use a software firewall and here's what I've blocked so far... https://up1.ca/#JQqL3y0xqLZnxaOlYQ0s6A And this is on a machine running Enterprise with privacy settings cranked, and most stuff disabled via group policy. I'm trying to avoid blocking updates, but svchost is still out there talking to random microsoft servers. The worst part is that I can't differentiate between the servers used for t…

[deleted]

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#96

Post by scholia » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:17 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #32

Hello71 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have trouble enough with China trying to hack us literally thousands of times per day you mean you did "tail -f /var/log/secure". > God forbid Microsoft give 7 the boot for support like they did XP. god forbid Microsoft try to deprecate OSs after nearly 13 years. note that in 2001, the newest Linux kernel available was in the 2.4 series, with many people still using 2.2.

god forbid Microsoft try to deprecate OSs after nearly 13 years. You seem to have invented a decade. Windows 8 RTM was just over 3 years ago. Also, while I have some sympathy with both the idea that software isn't perfect and the idea that Microsoft need a viable business model, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a product like Windows 7 to come with essential support for a significant period of time, perhaps…

> I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a product like Windows 7 to come with essential support for a significant period of time, perhaps based on the expected working lifetime of devices where the software is normally installed.

Under Microsoft's software lifecycle policy, operating systems are normally supported for 10 years. So, for example, we already know that support for Windows 7 ends in 2020, unless it's extended. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/lifecycle

The best LTS on Linux is 5 years, and used to be 3 years. The best lifecycle support on OS X is, oh well, pick a number. A small number.

If you bought Windows 7 in 2009 and took a free upgrade to Windows 10 then you're supported until 2025, if your hardware lasts that long. So you'd have got roughly 15 years' use of an operating system for roughly $40. It's obviously terrible value....

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#97

Post by jellicle » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

I have a really hard time understanding how "enterprises" are going to upgrade to Windows 10.

An operating system that is sending random internal data to random places on the internet seems to violate both a wide selection of national laws related to data privacy, and many corporate policies relating to trade secrets, privacy, internal operations and so on.

Microsoft must have thought of this. What's their plan for continuing to sell to these customers?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#98

Post by rsync » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

bsilvereagle wrote: post #2

> And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy. Does this mean a Win10 machine setup to use something like Tor will leak the user's actual IP back to…

Look. Seriously.

I don't want to be a brat, but what is the possible overlap between people caring to use Tor (for whatever reason) and people using Windows 10 as the host OS ?

You're at the absolute cutting edge of spyware-in-the-home, defective by design, obscured infrastructure that was designed from the ground up to be user hostile in every conceivable dimension. And you're going to run Tor on that.

There's a phrase for this and that phrase is "clown college".

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#99

Post by kuschku » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:23 PM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #43

thescrewdriver wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people will read the privacy terms. Just because they have a document people clicked 'agree' below without reading doesn't mean that MS should not be held to account for what Windows 10 is leaking. For many users not using Windows isn't an option.

Yet, I believe he has a point, and he had pointed to the very core problem. If you hadn't read the EULA/ToS/Privacy Policy/etc, but had consented to those (by clicked "agree" in case of click-wrap packaging thingy), the fact is Microsoft is very unlikely to be held accountable if their actions are perfectly conforming to the agreement you had agreed without even reading. Something is surely not right with this whole…

EULA, ToS, etc do not apply in Europe if they contain terms that the user can not reasonably expect.

An OS sharing all your data even with snooping disabled falls under this regulation, and multiple EU data privacy officials are already investigating and preparing a case.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#100

Post by irq-1 » Thu, Aug 13, 2015, 4:26 PM UTC

blackbeard wrote: post #5

bsilvereagle wrote: post #2

> And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy. Does this mean a Win10 machine setup to use something like Tor will leak the user's actual IP back to…

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

> If I don't know what it's doing, how can I trust it?

It's not enough to examine software: if you don't trust the company, then anything they say or promise is worthless. Automatic updates can change anything, including the TOS! This is the same company that sells a 1984-Telescreen (XBox) with an always-on camera and microphone. _NSA shouldn't be forgotten.

Oracle likes to tout Java as GPL, but what does that matter when we know the company can't be trusted? Who controls a software project is the key, not the licenses or corporate promises. There's no point in trusting iOS because we've examined it, we also have to trust Apple.