Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#101

Post by jsingleton » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

ghurlman wrote: post #11

tigeba wrote: post #3

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?

While the tool to flash the SD that Microsoft built requires Windows 10, it doesn't require anything else besides a Pi: http://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupRPI.htm Granted, if you go through the developer site, it points you towards installing what you need to develop software for it. shrug

You can use this python script to convert the image to standard raw format: https://github.com/t0x0/random

Then flash it with your normal tool such as dd or Win32DiskImager.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#102

Post by joezydeco » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:46 PM UTC

Todd wrote: post #94

joezydeco wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've managed a 25-year career out of staying away from anything Microsoft in the embedded arena. WinCE, WinCE Auto, Windows Embedded, Windows XP Embedded, Windows XP Embedded Cool Ranch Flavor, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Windows Phone 8, Windows whatever-the-hell-it-is-today. And that philosophy has saved me a lot of pain over the years. The tools might be great, but I don't ship tools. I ship applications that n…

I've managed a 25-year career out of using the right tool for the job. I focus on Windows, but I use Linux, OS X, etc. when it makes sense. The flavors of Windows that you mention are part of a longer term story, and are really just two operating systems: Windows CE and Windows NT. Windows CE was important for targeting the small devices of the 90's era in which it was developed. Now we can run NT on the 'small' devi…

Now we can run NT on the 'small' devices that we have today.

Funny how things change. A Raspberry Pi isn't a "small" embedded device. It's a small desktop device. It just happens to get embedded in a lot of stuff now.

I still can't/won't run WinNT on the 72MHz Cortex-M3 (w/64KiB SRAM) that's the core of my customer's current product.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#103

Post by cobalt » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

s73v3r wrote: post #96

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft just came out with an Android Emulator this year too. It's faster than any other emulator that I've seen and it's really well integrated with Visual Studio. If you've never really used Microsofts tools before and all that you've heard about Microsoft has originated from the crowd that hangs out at HN, you can be forgiven for not knowing that they make very fine quality tools.

But VS isn't used for writing Android apps. The vast majority of those are written in Java, which VS isn't used for.

you can in VS 2015

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#104

Post by cobalt » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #76

WorldWideWayne wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft just came out with an Android Emulator this year too. It's faster than any other emulator that I've seen and it's really well integrated with Visual Studio. If you've never really used Microsofts tools before and all that you've heard about Microsoft has originated from the crowd that hangs out at HN, you can be forgiven for not knowing that they make very fine quality tools.

I've managed a 25-year career out of staying away from anything Microsoft in the embedded arena. WinCE, WinCE Auto, Windows Embedded, Windows XP Embedded, Windows XP Embedded Cool Ranch Flavor, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Windows Phone 8, Windows whatever-the-hell-it-is-today. And that philosophy has saved me a lot of pain over the years. The tools might be great, but I don't ship tools. I ship applications that n…

How can you claim it's saved you a lot of pain if you have never done it.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#105

Post by cobalt » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:53 PM UTC

tpio wrote: post #99

thenewwazoo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not. MS makes really, really killer tools.

On a really, really shitty platform without a package manager and a decent CLI.

um, really shitty platform i nwhat regard? Also, VS has had a package manager for a while and Powershell is more than capable

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#106

Post by cobalt » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 9:55 PM UTC

ultramancool wrote: post #83

fsloth wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm left wondering what's the latest Visual Studio version you are familiar with. 2013 and 2015 are becoming pretty good - out of the box. I'm using visual studio nearly daily for C++, nothing wrong with it (except it lacked vim binding for which - there is an extension.)

The lack of basic C++ development features like "go to implementation", "add to header", automatic updating of prototypes or even the most basic refactoring tools like moving definitions, extracting functions, if I'm remembering correctly it didn't even have rename... yeah it drove me away pretty easily.

VS 2013 and 2015 have added at least most of these features and if you really want some of that more fancy stuff, as said above, there is Resharper

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#107

Post by nbadg » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #97

tigeba wrote: post #3

When they released this a couple of months ago I was pretty excited to try it out. I think the barrier to installation is a bit high. First install Windows 10, then custom install of VS, install IoT Templates, then about 30 more steps before you get the image to flash on your SD. How about a link to the image I can blast on the SD and kick the tires without a couple hours of downloading and installing prerequisites?

Very funny considering the uneasiness people have towards "putting Linux on a computer". For the Raspberry Pi, the reality is completely reversed as NOOBS is the absolute easiest, most convenient way to put any OS on any computer ever. I really don't understand people who want this, with closed source software the learning stops at some point, you can't learn everything about your Windows-Pi even though it was create…

> Can there really be people that are willing and able to build their own IOT but do not want to learn about Linux?

Absolutely, and especially in corporate environments. I'm not saying Windows 10 IoT is any better (I think it's very unlikely to be, but I also haven't evaluated it), but I can say for certain that I wish I had a single, identical python library for any IoT platform that handled interfaces as simply as:

    with pin_1 as p1:
        p1.output(1)
        time.sleep(2)
        p1.output(0)

Now, there are some libraries that approach that level of simplicity once you have your system configuration set up, but that doesn't lend itself to agile development. I want something that works like that out-of-box -- flash it, load code, press go button -- which simply doesn't exist. And, after spending a lot of time writing my own hardware IO library using direct memory access in Python, I don't think there's an OS out there that's capable of doing it (yet). I've spent just way too much time accommodating unfortunate abstractions taken at the linux kernel level (that I understand for historical reasons, but disagree with for future ones). An operating system for IoT done right is, in my opinion, a very lightweight exokernel with some really smart abstractions that just gets out of your way. Then you need a clever (and native) secure networking system, and you're in very good shape.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#108

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

s73v3r wrote: post #98

elchief wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably for the same reason that Apple requires you to own a mac to build an iPhone app

That's not the same at all. This is literally just putting an image on an SD card.

An image that is only useful if you have a Windows 10 app to run in it. It lacks a Windows shell.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#109

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 10:47 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #89

elchief wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably for the same reason that Apple requires you to own a mac to build an iPhone app

Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. So no - there is no good reason for making Win 10 essential, beyond corporate dementia. Seriously. Why on Earth does MS seem to think there's going to be a stampede to install an OS that doesn't do anything outstandingly special, has a high cost of entry (in time and effort, if you don't want Win…

> Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product.

Windows 10 IoT Core doesn't have a shell. It's only worth putting on the Pi if you have a Windows 10 app developed for it.

Re: Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi 2

#110

Post by nivla » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #89

elchief wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably for the same reason that Apple requires you to own a mac to build an iPhone app

Except that OS X and iOS are both Apple environments for Apple hardware, while the Pi is an independent hardware product. So no - there is no good reason for making Win 10 essential, beyond corporate dementia. Seriously. Why on Earth does MS seem to think there's going to be a stampede to install an OS that doesn't do anything outstandingly special, has a high cost of entry (in time and effort, if you don't want Win…

>Why on Earth does MS seem to think there's going to be a stampede to install an OS that doesn't do anything outstandingly special

Well if I can get flash and silverlight to work, that would make my raspberry pi Media Center complete. When you work with raspberry pi you will realize how limited it is. Even most popular programs that work with Ubuntu does not work with it. I still can't even a decent browser on it, and by decent I mean something that only uses up < 80% CPU.