New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law • Hacker News Board

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#51

Post by tptacek » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #45

tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my very most successful friends, by far one of the most socially and artistically connected people I know, didn't see Star Wars until his late 30s. He seemed to have suffered for that: not at all. Exactly, in as much detail as you can be patient enough to provide, how does "effective cultural participation" require you to see shitty new-release Hollywood movies? Is Marco Arment culturally disconnected? http://…

When I was growing up, we didn't have a television until partway through junior high. (One of the best moves my parents made.) I kept hearing these conversations in the hallway: "Did you see Starsky & Hutch last night?" (Yes, I really am that old...) I felt a bit left out based on that. But I felt left out because of a lot of things. I wasn't a member of the dominant religion. I came into that school knowing nobody,…

Thanks for this comment (which is something I can say because I agree with you. :)

I feel like, if you don't know where your local MLB team is in the standings today, you probably don't have a lot of standing to make arguments about US cultural disconnection.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#52

Post by kaybe » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

smeyer wrote: post #30

acd wrote: post #28

I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal copies. In my country it is still legal todo so for personal use but DRM prohibits one from excercising this legal right. HDMI HDCP All easily mitigated with some Chinese hardware that for an hacker is easy to come by but a little harder for the average consumer. I guess rights holders fear that there will TV 2.0 on the darknet, given how much ba…

>I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal copies. There was analog copy protection on VHS as well.

In Germany you actually pay a tax for empty data storage and the writing machine (as described here [1], and here [2] (with prices in German)).

For example, an external harddrive ≥ 1 TB will cost you 9.00 € in tax. This is supposed to cover personal copies (but does not give you the right to circumvent copy protection).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauschalabgabe

edit: Just saw the prices for mobile phones with touchscreen and over 8 GB storage: 36,00 €! Wow.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#53

Post by serge2k » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #44

Why exactly are any governments agreeing to this shit?

because the US government is too powerful to ignore and the US government also happens to have been systematically corrupted by corporate interests.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#54

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

api wrote: post #43

jakejake wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

Also important to note that even if you pirate, you are increasing a film or album's viral coefficient and possibly helping verbally promote it. So yeah, if you hate an industry boycott it. Remove it from your life.

That's the funny part. One of the principle arguments for "legit" piracy is that the increased exposure is actually good for business. So combined, these two arguments amount to "you should pirate from these terrible, evil companies in order to increase their profits." Huh.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#55

Post by FD3SA » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:37 PM UTC

ZenoArrow wrote: post #21

kuschku wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read TPP? The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime.

> "The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime." They can't enforce that with music, it's beyond their control. To be able to control that they'd need to be able to restrict access to electronics components, restrict access to…

As alluded to throughout many comments, the point is to be able to put any individual in jail at any time for any arbitrary reason.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#56

Post by pbsd » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #36

joesmo wrote: post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit. I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry whose business practices you don't like is to stop using their products . Indeed, your rationale is one reason why Hollywood has so much power. Piracy…

Arguing the frivolity of Hollywood movie piracy is not terribly hard. Would you apply the same reasoning to academic research paper and/or textbook piracy?

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#57

Post by notatoad » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #44

Why exactly are any governments agreeing to this shit?

Because it's just one part of a huge deal involving a lot more than copyright. NZ wants to get into the Canadian dairy market. Australia wants to be able to sell sugar to americans. Every country has things they want, and things they don't care about that they're willing to give up in exchange for the things they want. It seems that agreeing to the American's copyright demands mostly falls into the "things we're willing to give up" category.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#58

Post by beloch » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

jpollock wrote: post #26

Copyright section: It seems to be giving everyone in the TPP area "Fair Use" rights. This is a HUGE positive change to Canada, NZ and Australia which haven't had that previously. [1] However, the TPM section will make every single citizen in New Zealand a criminal. You see, in NZ every DVD player is sold region-free. The salesperson will say "would you like that region free"? Not being stupid, everyone says "yes", an…

"This is a HUGE positive change to Canada, NZ and Australia which haven't had that previously."

Canada has "fair dealing", which has largely the same effect as "fair use" in the U.S..

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#59

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

pbsd wrote: post #56

rayiner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit. I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry whose business practices you don't like is to stop using their products . Indeed, your rationale is one reason why Hollywood has so much power. Piracy…

Arguing the frivolity of Hollywood movie piracy is not terribly hard. Would you apply the same reasoning to academic research paper and/or textbook piracy?

People certainly complain about closed access academic journals, but they whine about the "MAFIAA" ten or a hundred times as much. When the situation changes and the principal complaint about copyright overlords is about textbooks, then that can become a good place to start the discussion.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#60

Post by klagermkii » Thu, Aug 06, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

jakejake wrote: post #32

joesmo wrote: post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

But if you want change isn't defiance generally way more effective at creating it than boycotts? Especially when there is a huge power difference between consumers and the multi-national media conglomerates.

I get the feeling when people promote boycotts as the so-called ethical choice they're basically saying "shhhh, I like the system as it is, why don't you just go do your own thing instead". Even though intellectual property might be viewed as a relatively unimportant issue, I think it only helps protect the status quo to push an ineffectual form of protest.