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New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

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Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#21

Post by ZenoArrow »

kuschku wrote: post #7
ZenoArrow wrote: post #3

When will these idiots learn that DRM doesn't work? How hard will it be for pirates to remove these controls? Assuming a software hack is hard, the option still exists for re-encoding the audio based on capturing the source data in its audio form (whether analog line out or digital line out). DRM encourages piracy. It means that the DRM-free pirated version has extra value, and punishes those who do not want to break…

Have you read TPP? The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime.

> "The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime."

They can't enforce that with music, it's beyond their control. To be able to control that they'd need to be able to restrict access to electronics components, restrict access to electronics education, confiscate all existing audio recording equipment, restrict access to purchase audio recording equipment (including equipment for musicians and the TV/film industry). Furthermore, once the music is DRM free, you'd need to be able to monitor the sharing of citizens around the world, not just through the Internet and private computer networks but through Sneakernets as well (an example of an effective sneakernet: http://www.fastcompany.com/3048163/in-cuba-an-underground-ne... ).

So with all this in mind, what's the point? Those who want DRM-free music are going to be able to get it and hide it from the authorities, and it'll have minimum to no effect on the industries it was designed to protect, and possibly backfire if enough people choose to resist the restrictions.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#22

Post by joesmo »

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives.

This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music "industry" wonders why many people refuse to give them a penny? The damage has already been done. At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#23

Post by jamestnz »

norea-armozel wrote: post #8
kuschku wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read TPP? The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime.

That's what I don't grasp about this situation. Why can't content industries just accept that the gravy train of yesteryear is over? Just figure out a new business model. They've had well over a decade and a half to throw enough heads at the problem to figure out how to prevent further decline in their revenues. But it just seems they're as stubborn (if not more so) as an ox when it comes to accepting reality.

>Why can't content industries just accept that the gravy train of yesteryear is over?

Entrenched incumbents rarely can. And, economically speaking, if they reckon they'll be able to extract more longevity/revenue/advantage this way (lobbying to manipulate the playing-field in their favour, as opposed to coming up with innovations that would enable the business to adapt and thrive) -- then I guess that's the "rational" thing to do :)

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#24

Post by kennywinker »

golergka wrote: post #4

> songs purchased through Apple’s iTunes music store—which restricts playback to a handful of computers This is not true. If you download songs through Apple Music, then they are protected m4p, but if you purchase music, the files are unprotected m4a and play in other software like Traktor or in CDJ's without any problem.

In the US that may be the case, but in Canada purchases from iTunes are still DRMed.

[edit] - nope, sorry, I'm wrong. Assumed it was still there because I recently got a new machine and had to "authorize" it to play my iTunes purchases. The files, however, play in any audio player, so I guess it's a soft drm?

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#25

Post by BonsaiDen »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #21
kuschku wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read TPP? The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime.

> "The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime." They can't enforce that with music, it's beyond their control. To be able to control that they'd need to be able to restrict access to electronics components, restrict access to…

The whole things feels more like an easy way of putting (more) people into jail than anything else. Since the tech crowd isn't running around on the street smoking their joints (well, for the most part at least) it's far easier for law enforcement to shoot them down via the help of some random audio file on one of their devices.

TPP is as much a political agenda as it is a trade agreement. The US wants their "standards" around the globe, so they can get you anytime, anywhere without you having any chance of defending yourself. You cannot build a global surveillance state if there are still people around which can potentially undermine you by use of technology, so you need to get rid of them in a "nice and clean" way, and charging some cryptographers for illegal music will produce much less public outcry as if you were to put them into prison for doing their everyday work.

How sad it may sound, Cameron could learn a lot from these folks :/

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#26

Post by jpollock »

Copyright section:

It seems to be giving everyone in the TPP area "Fair Use" rights. This is a HUGE positive change to Canada, NZ and Australia which haven't had that previously. [1]

However, the TPM section will make every single citizen in New Zealand a criminal. You see, in NZ every DVD player is sold region-free. The salesperson will say "would you like that region free"? Not being stupid, everyone says "yes", and proceeds to buy DVDs/BluRays from Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.com. [2] Although, it does have this caveat:

"[...]applied where any person is found to have engaged willfully and for the purposes of commercial advantage or financial gain"

Which might give them a fig leaf to hide behind? Then there's this paragraph which looks like a truck sized hole:

"Each Party may provide certain exceptions and limitations to the measures implementing subparagraphs (a)(i) and (ii) in order to enable non­infringing uses"

Oh, this is all around "Rights Management Information", basically, any piece of information which says who the authors, performers, producers and owners are. So, a bit of metadata attached to the mp3 is sufficient. Even a foreign key is allowed. [3]

Personally, I want to see the agricultural section, and whether or not parallel imports have been banned.

[1] http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright... Article.GG.Y

[2] http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright... Article QQ.G.10

[2] http://keionline.org/sites/default/files/Section-G-Copyright... Article QQ.G.13 (c)

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#27

Post by golergka »

wxs wrote: post #14
golergka wrote: post #4

> songs purchased through Apple’s iTunes music store—which restricts playback to a handful of computers This is not true. If you download songs through Apple Music, then they are protected m4p, but if you purchase music, the files are unprotected m4a and play in other software like Traktor or in CDJ's without any problem.

Though if I'm not mistaken the unprotected m4a still contains a "digital watermark" (i.e. metadata with your iTunes account info) which this article claims would become illegal to remove.

It contains a tag, not a watermark.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#28

Post by acd »

I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal copies. In my country it is still legal todo so for personal use but DRM prohibits one from excercising this legal right.

HDMI HDCP

All easily mitigated with some Chinese hardware that for an hacker is easy to come by but a little harder for the average consumer.

I guess rights holders fear that there will TV 2.0 on the darknet, given how much bandwidth people will have cheaply in the future its quite likely that such a system will emerge.

I guess they fear the Popcorntime of TV which may be vastly to the commercial offers. Pirates does not need to negotiate content agreements just make good software.

I'd like to pay for my TV service but it should be good an innovative.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#29

Post by arrrg »

kennywinker wrote: post #24
golergka wrote: post #4

> songs purchased through Apple’s iTunes music store—which restricts playback to a handful of computers This is not true. If you download songs through Apple Music, then they are protected m4p, but if you purchase music, the files are unprotected m4a and play in other software like Traktor or in CDJ's without any problem.

In the US that may be the case, but in Canada purchases from iTunes are still DRMed. [edit] - nope, sorry, I'm wrong. Assumed it was still there because I recently got a new machine and had to "authorize" it to play my iTunes purchases. The files, however, play in any audio player, so I guess it's a soft drm?

Videos are still DRMd, as is all the Apple Music stuff (the new streaming service).

So really, only music is DRM free and you can buy other stuff from Apple.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#30

Post by smeyer »

acd wrote: post #28

I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal copies. In my country it is still legal todo so for personal use but DRM prohibits one from excercising this legal right. HDMI HDCP All easily mitigated with some Chinese hardware that for an hacker is easy to come by but a little harder for the average consumer. I guess rights holders fear that there will TV 2.0 on the darknet, given how much ba…

>I'm old enough to remember the VCR then you were allow to make personal copies.

There was analog copy protection on VHS as well.

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