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New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

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Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read TPP? The current leaks specify that selling, buying, owning, using, inventing, planning, modifying, etc of devices, software, or methods that can be used or could be helpful for removal or circumvention of DRM have to be treated as a a crime.

That's what I don't grasp about this situation. Why can't content industries just accept that the gravy train of yesteryear is over? Just figure out a new business model. They've had well over a decade and a half to throw enough heads at the problem to figure out how to prevent further decline in their revenues. But it just seems they're as stubborn (if not more so) as an ox when it comes to accepting reality.

It's about control and the very long game.

Think about it. Disney got started with works from the Brothers Grimm. Copyright terms were short then. Once Disney became an empire, they very quickly realized somebody else could compete with them. So they worked to extend copyright, and it's pretty much going to continue that way, keeping Mickey just out of the Public Domain.

Disney knows another Disney is bad for business, unless they own that Disney.

And there is where the control comes into play.

The people with empires today realize they can become extinct tomorrow. All it takes is a little competition and the barrier for entry has never been lower. People can put things out there and get a lot of attention and distribute for almost nothing compared to what it took to build the empires we see today.

If they get this, then they won't have to deal with competetors. It's going to be hard to do anything really, because the criminal risks associated with doing things with open tools and data will turn people toward, "safe" and "approved" means and methods. Those will just happen to align with approved distribution, meaning they get a cut, and or ownership ideally.

Given this perspective, reality is what they say it is. Has nothing at all to do with the tech and it's impact on the business model.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#32
post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#34

When will these idiots learn that DRM doesn't work? How hard will it be for pirates to remove these controls? Assuming a software hack is hard, the option still exists for re-encoding the audio based on capturing the source data in its audio form (whether analog line out or digital line out). DRM encourages piracy. It means that the DRM-free pirated version has extra value, and punishes those who do not want to break…

Most of them know that DRM doesn't prevent lost sales due to piracy (as you said, DRM actually increases lost sales), and they as well know that it's futile to try preventing DRM breaking - it will be broken no matter what.

However DRM + corrupted anticircumvention laws give them various control and ways of writing their own laws without any democratic process. That way they can poison standards (HDCP for instance), ban competition (mobile devices locking) and attack individuals when they really want to (like Geohot case). I.e. they get a lot power as a side effect of DRM.

That's why they push so much for this trash. It's about control and has nothing to do with any piracy. And that's why society should strongly reject DRM and its kin (DMCA-1201 and etc.) as unethical and unacceptable police state approach.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#35
post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

I want to disagree with you because what you propose is, at the very least, inconvenient - but you're 100% correct, we should vote with our pocketbooks.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#36
post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit.

I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry whose business practices you don't like is to stop using their products.

Indeed, your rationale is one reason why Hollywood has so much power. Piracy eviscerates the criticism against these legal measures by strengthening the idea that people don't really care about freedom, they just want a popular product for free. Every time you pirate a Hollywood movie instead of simply forgoing watching it, you just validate the value and importance of the products Hollywood produces. You just reinforce the idea that these products are so important, it's worth undertaking these extreme measures to protect the companies that produce them.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you feel that way and don't want to support the industry, the real ethical thing to do is to not watch or listen to their products. Only support artists who are releasing their material under terms that you agree with.

I want to disagree with you because what you propose is, at the very least, inconvenient - but you're 100% correct, we should vote with our pocketbooks.

From http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-c...

"When people are framed as consumers, society becomes little more than a marketplace. Social problems get treated with individualized, market-oriented solutions — where each consumer-citizen is solely responsible for spotting deceptive practices and avoiding unfair schemes — instead of collective, rights-based protections.

When the private sector enters into the social contract, ... [we get] shallow public-private partnerships in which the corporate actors are really in charge. While the public is hung out to dry with effectively no defense or recourse since our political rights have evaporated into market choices."

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to disagree with you because what you propose is, at the very least, inconvenient - but you're 100% correct, we should vote with our pocketbooks.

From http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/stop-treating-c... "When people are framed as consumers, society becomes little more than a marketplace. Social problems get treated with individualized, market-oriented solutions — where each consumer-citizen is solely responsible for spotting deceptive practices and avoiding unfair schemes — instead of collective, rights-based protections. When the private sector en…

How is that applicable here? What political rights are in play here? We're talking about entertainment, about as purely commercial a product as you can get. We're not talking about healthcare or water or food or housing.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#39
post #36
post #22

So they're criminalizing yet another everyday activity that hurts no one and is already protected by civil law. It seems to me the US and its puppet follower states just love the idea of criminalizing things that occur naturally, hurt no one, and in their enforcement and chaos bring in billions of dollars in profit off of ruining people's lives. This has now been the norm for almost two decades and the movie / music…

> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit. I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry whose business practices you don't like is to stop using their products . Indeed, your rationale is one reason why Hollywood has so much power. Piracy…

When effective cultural participation requires keeping up to date with at least some of Hollywood's products, choosing not to view/listen is the same as choosing to be just that much more socially disconnected. See Moxie Marlinspike's presentation about this concept applied to technology:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk

When one oligopoly owns the vast majority of contemporary popular culture, we, the populace, should be expecting a lot more in return.

Re: New Trans-Pacific Partnership Leak Means ‘Significant Overhaul’ for Canadian Law

#40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point, piracy is the only ethical solution to obtaining such content, as giving these companies money is immoral and supports people who threaten and ruin people's lives for profit. I don't understand this rationale at all. Surely the solution to an industry whose business practices you don't like is to stop using their products . Indeed, your rationale is one reason why Hollywood has so much power. Piracy…

When effective cultural participation requires keeping up to date with at least some of Hollywood's products, choosing not to view/listen is the same as choosing to be just that much more socially disconnected. See Moxie Marlinspike's presentation about this concept applied to technology: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0KrT6pBPk When one oligopoly owns the vast majority of contemporary popular culture, we, the popula…

One of my very most successful friends, by far one of the most socially and artistically connected people I know, didn't see Star Wars until his late 30s. He seemed to have suffered for that: not at all.

Exactly, in as much detail as you can be patient enough to provide, how does "effective cultural participation" require you to see shitty new-release Hollywood movies?

Is Marco Arment culturally disconnected?

http://www.marco.org/2015/04/11/popular-movies-i-havent-seen

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