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I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

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Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#111

This article is pure distillation of everything that's wrong with VR -- not the tech, but the people who are thinking about it and trying to build it. Specifically youngish white male gamer nerds. I want to write about this more at length -- maybe I'll put something on my blog or on Medium or something -- but I also tried VR, and the most interesting aspect of the experience was just how clueless all of the gamer typ…

I'm extremely near-sighted, which is getting worse with age. Some believe that myopia is exacerbated by typical indoor activities. So my dream use case is to be able to do my computer work an a virtual drive-in movie theater screen. In other words, I could still do the same type of computer work, but my eyes would be exercised at a distance.

Put this VR drive-in theater in gorgeous outdoor settings (e.g. Grand Canyon, cruise ship through the Antarctic, Ancient Theatre of Delphi, Mars) and I can glance from my work to eye-opening beauty. If my physical environment is set up correctly, I can take a break easily shift to a pleasant exercise environment. It could be an adrenaline pumping first-person shooter, or it could simply be hopping on a treadmill or stationary bike and traveling through some of those gorgeous outdoor settings.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#112
Today's VR still isn't there. Yesterday's VR didn't go anywhere.

However as someone who has only used the Devkit1 of the Rift I can really see this is the future of SOME entertainment. It is going to be amazing, eventually.

Games in 5-8 years made for VR are going to be mindblowingly immersive. Then again we're still going to have non-VR games. I think it's important to understand that this tech is really only useful in certain contexts.

Horror games (for VR) are going to be painful, adrenaline pumping, sweat inducing, monstrosities.

Huge possibilities exist for experiencing other perspectives in VR, too numerous to even count. Even basic things like experiencing what it's like to be taller/shorter will have an unexpectedly large impact on immersion.

VR is basically the DDR dancepad of the future. It's just an unusual interface device to increase immersion, but it's going to (eventually) be incredible. I'm very excited for the future of VR and non-VR alike.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#113

This article is pure distillation of everything that's wrong with VR -- not the tech, but the people who are thinking about it and trying to build it. Specifically youngish white male gamer nerds. I want to write about this more at length -- maybe I'll put something on my blog or on Medium or something -- but I also tried VR, and the most interesting aspect of the experience was just how clueless all of the gamer typ…

So, for those of us without a family, you sound kind of condescending.

The entire reason we have modern computers and technology is basically because of the push for bigger drives and better graphics, driven by hardcore gaming. Without that market driver--your looked-down-upon "youngish white male gamer nerds"--you wouldn't have tech worth worrying about.

Besides, Ars Technica exists pretty much to pander to same. Get off your high horse.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#114
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that we have sub-one-dollar accelerometer circuits with enough accuracy and reliability to embed into commercial gaming controllers coupled with the existence of enough processing power to render DOOM-level graphics at the 60FPS necessary to minimize the number of people who get physically ill in the headset, the "late version" is actually very close. It has always been a hardware challenge, and we are actually l…

Double the FPS requirement to 120 because people have two eyes.

Um...or render in stereo to a framebuffer, one side per eye?

You know, like we've shown works?

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#115

This article is pure distillation of everything that's wrong with VR -- not the tech, but the people who are thinking about it and trying to build it. Specifically youngish white male gamer nerds. I want to write about this more at length -- maybe I'll put something on my blog or on Medium or something -- but I also tried VR, and the most interesting aspect of the experience was just how clueless all of the gamer typ…

I think to a large extent the focus on gaming is more about the low hanging fruit and about what can translate into immediate business.

What do I mean by that?

Well I mean to say that there are no experiences you talk of that currently work on a screen. i.e. nobody turns on their computer screen to start a video of a sundown backdrop to create a romantic moment to have dinner with their partner. But millions of people turn on their screen to have the gaming experience you describe. The reason probably is that the former requires an insane degree of realism, and a screen, or even the first iterations of VR, just aren't good enough. Whereas the latter, gaming, can be immersive with much lower standards, as it has been from e.g. games 20 years ago to games today.

So the low hanging fruit for immediate business opportunities are probably games, and you can immediately get millions of people excited about that.

But getting people excited to go on vacation and take a walk on the beach requires more than just visual immersion. It means feeling sand beneath your feet. Or in the Parisian cafe you mentioned, simply interacting with an actual other human being, physically, holding hands, and seeing that other person you're in the cafe with with as realistically as in real life, mimicking their exact movements, as anything less immediately hits you with the realisation that you're looking at a virtual 3d model of your girlfriend.

Beyond that, I think you're writing this from a perspective of a ridiculously one-sided, self-selecting personal experience.

Of course if you're going to visit a gaming company, you're not just going to find people disproportionately passionate about games, but you'll find people trying to focus on gaming products.

After all if you'd gone to an architectural company and they demo'd a business meeting where they showed the new building design to a client, and you spent 30 minutes after talking about how it'd be so cool to shoot orcs in VR, what do you think they'd say or think? They'd just go right back to talking about their company's use of VR, architecture.

Yes VR needs diverse uses and will have them. What I'm seeing is VR being talked about in education, in health care, in architecture, in cinema, in completely new semi-gaming experiences (i.e. exploring the world as a bird [0]), in porn, in sports, in business/communications. I feel you're writing this as if nobody is open to that, or exploring those things. While it is true there is a focus on gaming, I also think that this is definitely a 'no-brainer' billion dollar industry that can start shipping serious, AAA class games within 1-2 years. Particularly because VR technology is so very closely tied to the skill sets and expertise of gaming companies. Whereas say getting in education, you won't find deep expertise there to start creating top schools whose courses on say history consists half out of VR, and when it finally does happen, the history VR course content probably heavily leans on technology and learnings from the gaming's industry's experiences with VR, hell they may even commission gaming companies to build it with them in cooperation. Which is why I don't think the focus on gaming is all that crazy, it makes a lot of sense business/expertise wise, and will probably create a tide that lifts all boats in other areas of VR.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWLHIusLWOc

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#116
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we still haven't addressed the bigger problem of coming up with something compelling to do with it For the most of the games that are developed today with first-person view in mind, adding support for VR isn't something that is very hard to add. And these games are already pretty compelling. The only question is convenience. The post mentioned 3d in televisions — but 3d did win in cinemas. I recently wanted to watc…

First person games as they exist today don't transfer well to VR. The issue is the locomotion problem: Moving the player in the virtual world but not the real world causes motion sickness, since they're not getting a matching input to their vestibular system. Oculus' system today is suited more for cockpit games or 3rd person games with gentle camera movement. Valve are also targetting room sized first person experie…

Cockpit simulators have a leg up in this department - not much movement expected in driving / flying / spaceships.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#117

It says something that we're writing blog posts about, "This early version of tech didn't absolutely blow my mind" I mean, this is still early-iPod-days of this tech. You could look at it, especially after hearing hype about the iPod, and say something like, "No wireless, less space than a Nomad, lame." http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ip... Anecdotally, I've found that looking at anything fr…

One person was wrong once about the iPod, that means that all criticism of new tech products is invalid forever!

That's not what I was saying at all. I'm saying it's easy to misjudge the potential of very early technologies by looking at the wrong criteria.

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#118
post #13

Jeff is speaking from a position of not having tried the good stuff that delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world. That is the game changer, the thing that is making people believe something special is on the way. When he says "I have experienced modern VR. A lot. I've tried both the Oculus DK1, the Oculus DK2." he's just flatly wrong, he hasn't. Those headsets at not modern VR and using them as the refere…

> ... delivers a sense of 'presence' in the virtual world I keep re-reading your comment and it keeps getting stuck in my marketing filter. What do you mean by a sense of presence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHaOeNUOdh8

Also somewhat related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwn1w7MJvk

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey sireat! I'd love to learn more about how your friend's architecture office is using the Oculus and what their experience has been with is so far. My company, InsiteVR, makes it super simple for architects to get from 3D modeling software to VR without the headache of programming a game engine or setting everything up. And we use the GearVR so it's wireless, nice res, and easy to set up. Shoot me an email at angel…

Oh man this is heartbreaking. I've been developing what looks to be an incredibly similar product/workflow to yours, solo, for the last 8 months.

shiftpgdn we're hiring! shoot me an email angel[at]insitevr.com

Re: I Tried VR and It Was Just OK

#120
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is very unlikely any of that will be solved in a few years. For example resolution, arguably the easiest one to attack, when we are talking 4k res at 120fps, that is barely possible on the highest end PC rigs today with 2 or even 3 video cards in SLI.

On the Gear VR (dev kit, 2014) there was a 2.5k screen at a smooth 60fps. The consumer Gear VR coming out this fall will likely have a 2.5k screen but we'll likely see 4k screens on mobile headsets in 2016. 120fps will be a nice improvement but not required, with the Rift CV1 at 90fps and sufficient for presence. So we're talking a 2-4x difference. The graphics card issue is not that relevant, Gear VR with a mobile G…

Just to put this in perspective.

4k resolution is roughly 4x as demanding as 1080p. A lot of games run at 30 fps (especially on consoles) but most target 60 fps. If we want to do 4k @ 120 Hz, we are talking about 8x as much work. Rendering the scene twice (once for each eye) also adds quite a bit of overhead (lighting, etc.) and so that's a least a 2x factor. We are now looking at roughly 16x as much work. That is a very rough estimate but it gives a good feel for how much more processing is required to render the same scene in VR.

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