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Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

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Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#91

Post by theWheez »

dikaiosune wrote: post #44
mvid wrote: post #5

I write Python professionally, and it will be pretty hard to get me away from PyCharm. I don't see anything in the blog post that indicates a feature PyCharm doesn't already have.

I'm curious how smart auto-complete in PyCharm compares to IntelliSense here. The claim that a variable's lifecycle is followed from beginning to end is interesting. I'm finding that the JetBrains autocomplete knows what a variable's type is maybe the first or second time it's mutated, but often loses track. It's had the positive effect of lessening the amount I rely on re-assigning values to the same variable, but I…

I've found it to be mostly reliable until, like you said, accessing maybe an index of an array at which point I use type hinting, which seems to work well.

https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/help/type-hinting-in-pycha...

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#92

Post by odonnellryan »

mvid wrote: post #5

I write Python professionally, and it will be pretty hard to get me away from PyCharm. I don't see anything in the blog post that indicates a feature PyCharm doesn't already have.

I saw this new test feature for VS, it was basically inline debugging. Very very cool. Can't dig the link up right now, but I'd love that for PyCharm!

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#93

Post by JoshMnem »

antihero wrote: post #22
na85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliSense is pretty good, sure, but emacs is a superior development environment in nearly every other aspect.

How long does it take to set up Emacs to be as good as IDE? Also, how little effort does it take? Thing about something like VS or IDEA, is that you install it, and all the stuff is already set up. I have deadlines, and for me, tinkering with my editor is very much a hobbyist thing (whereas I'd prefer to be writing actual code in my free time).

Try Spacemacs: https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#94

Post by odonnellryan »

ohitsdom wrote: post #11
bliti wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say ahead of the competition, what do you mean? Ive used it before (2005, 2008, 2010), but it was just another IDE. How have things improved?

I work in Visual Studio exclusively for my day job the last 8 years so my experience is pretty limited. But every time I try out other languages and IDEs on my own time, I'm almost shocked at how hard the tools are to work with compared with Visual Studio. VS has excellent intellisense. Compile and runtime errors are clearly pointed out, usually with helpful error messages. And real-time debugging and being able to s…

Do you use JetBrains products for VS? If not, you're really missing out.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#95

Post by odonnellryan »

czardoz wrote: post #24
bliti wrote: post #4

For those who have used this: - Does it perform better than PyCharm? - How is Windows working for you as an OS (to develop Python on)?

I've not used this, but about the second bit: I've developed a few pieces of software on Windows and by far, the most painful thing I had to do install Visual Studio Express to compile some of the C extensions. I used Pycharm on Windows, so it pretty much abstracted away tasks like making virtualenvs, setting up environment variables, etc.

You're definitely right, sometimes you do need to install odd stuff on Windows to get certain Python packages to work.

It has seemed to get better lately. I usually use Windows, and I've been getting along great lately with Python dev work.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#96

Post by JoshMnem »

partiallypro wrote: post #48
JoshMnem wrote: post #37

I don't want to be forced to login to software before I use it. Also, Microsoft can't be trusted. Look at the keylogger in Windows 10, for example. PyCharm is a good Python IDE. You can get a lot of these features in Emacs (or try Spacemacs), or Vim, or Sublime (with plugins).

You mean the "keylogger" than only tracks search queries & auto-correct to better optimize algorithms, which Google and Apple both do. Sure. You also don't -have- to sign in. So your post is just nonsense.

You don't have to sign in to use Visual Studio? I've downloaded it twice and didn't see a way to use it without signing in. If it's there, it's hidden.

Windows 10 sends your typed text to remote servers. That's a keylogger. You can opt out, but most users won't. Other companies do it and I criticize them too.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#97

Post by JoshMnem »

Permit wrote: post #47
JoshMnem wrote: post #37

I don't want to be forced to login to software before I use it. Also, Microsoft can't be trusted. Look at the keylogger in Windows 10, for example. PyCharm is a good Python IDE. You can get a lot of these features in Emacs (or try Spacemacs), or Vim, or Sublime (with plugins).

>I don't want to be forced to login to software before I use it. Then don't, you don't have to log in. That's just to help roam your settings and hook up to Azure if you've got an account. If you don't want these features, just click "Don't Sign In".

I didn't see an option not to sign-in on my last two attempts at installing it. I will check again now. It says 28 Gb of my hard drive needs to be used for this IDE if I check all the boxes during install.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#98

Post by dikaiosune »

theWheez wrote: post #91
dikaiosune wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how smart auto-complete in PyCharm compares to IntelliSense here. The claim that a variable's lifecycle is followed from beginning to end is interesting. I'm finding that the JetBrains autocomplete knows what a variable's type is maybe the first or second time it's mutated, but often loses track. It's had the positive effect of lessening the amount I rely on re-assigning values to the same variable, but I…

I've found it to be mostly reliable until, like you said, accessing maybe an index of an array at which point I use type hinting, which seems to work well. https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/help/type-hinting-in-pycha...

Hey, thanks for that! I did not know that they had implemented that yet.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#99

Post by RA_Fisher »

chupapuma wrote: post #69
saboot wrote: post #25

I've been using PTVS for about two weeks now. Previously I just used Spyder which shipped with the Anaconda distribution. Some things that annoy me: - Reading intellisense python documentation in the mouse over window is really tedious. There is an object window that can display documentation for your classes, but not from libraries. - Rendered docs are much easier to read. Spyder did this very well. With PTVS I'm lo…

I am Chris Wilcox, one of the developers on Python Tools for Visual Studio. I am happy you have tried the product and glad you took the time to provide some feedback. We have some pretty decent GitHub support built in to Visual Studio and our tooling. With Visual Studio 2015 we also have a nifty 'Open in Visual Studio' button added to all GitHub pages. As for the other things they aren't complete yet but they are def…

Any chance to change the license over to GPL?

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#100

Post by bigger_cheese »

ohitsdom wrote: post #14
na85 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IntelliSense is pretty good, sure, but emacs is a superior development environment in nearly every other aspect.

I've never used emacs so am completely ignorant. What makes emacs superior? All I know is the speed that can come with keyboard shortcuts.

I have to admit I come from the opposite side to you. I learnt emacs at University almost 15 years ago and have been using it ever since. I've tried using Eclipse a few times in the past but I never really learnt the 'proper' way to use it and found it utterly uncompelling. I always end up going back to emacs. I write C code mostly though not sure if that is relevant.

I think I'm one of those grumpy set in his way types now so I'm unlikely to change my habits.

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