Why Write Python in Visual Studio? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#61

Post by gknoy » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:22 PM UTC

bmj wrote: post #20

ohitsdom wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in Visual Studio exclusively for my day job the last 8 years so my experience is pretty limited. But every time I try out other languages and IDEs on my own time, I'm almost shocked at how hard the tools are to work with compared with Visual Studio. VS has excellent intellisense. Compile and runtime errors are clearly pointed out, usually with helpful error messages. And real-time debugging and being able to s…

Did you work with other IDEs/languages before you started working with VS? I typically use VS every day (currently on 2013), and yes, I have a similar experience with other IDEs. Then I remember that I know VS pretty well, and maybe that's why this other IDE doesn't seem so great. If I spent 8 years with a different IDE, and someone gave me VS2015, I'd probably have that same "this clearly isn't as awesome as X" feel…

I'm not sure. I used Eclipse extensively for several years (though am not an expert), but immediately discarded ANY interest in Eclipse within about 20 minutes of using PyCharm. Because of that experience, I no longer felt that IDEs were interchangeable.

I haven't used Visual Studio in about a decade or more, but I would not be surprised if there were things about it that don't have an easy analogue in others, and which people miss.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#62

Post by dogma1138 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:24 PM UTC

Rapzid wrote: post #38

I have two questions in my head: 1.) Is the foundational work that has gone into this going to be used to help support intellisense in other languages in the future? 2.) Will any of this make it into Visual Studio Code?

Python had intellisense support both officially (through MSFT) and non-officially through community addins since VS2003, MSFT has support since 2005 with working examples.

VS Code doesn't really have "intellisense" it's a nice fork of ATOM but considering just how much of an amazing development environment VS is i feel like having Code under the same brand devalues it quite a bit.

Visual Studio also has support for Ruby, Node and virtually every other language out there from LoLCode to Scala the only real downside of VS is that it's not multi-platform, but outside of Silicon Valley you won't find that many software houses that develop on Mac's or Linux machines that often either.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#63

Post by dogma1138 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #26

robotresearcher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works fine in a Windows VM.

Of course it does, but that's not exactly the same thing, now is it?

why not? with parallels or a similar transparent solution why would you care? Heck most modern solutions even setup all the environment variables and paths so you barely even notice that you are on a different file system when you using them.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#64

Post by sandGorgon » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #62

Rapzid wrote: post #38

I have two questions in my head: 1.) Is the foundational work that has gone into this going to be used to help support intellisense in other languages in the future? 2.) Will any of this make it into Visual Studio Code?

Python had intellisense support both officially (through MSFT) and non-officially through community addins since VS2003, MSFT has support since 2005 with working examples. VS Code doesn't really have "intellisense" it's a nice fork of ATOM but considering just how much of an amazing development environment VS is i feel like having Code under the same brand devalues it quite a bit. Visual Studio also has support for R…

>but outside of Silicon Valley you won't find that many software houses that develop on Mac's or Linux machines that often either.

That's patently untrue - Linux is extremely, extremely popular all over India. All major laptop manufacturers (Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Acer) sell laptops with pre-installed Linux.

Unfortunately, Macs are getting pretty popular here - even though they are double in cost.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#65

Post by tcas » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

S4M wrote: post #58

atilaneves wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...And you get can get autocompletion in Emacs as well, so there's that. Before you ask, I use jedi.

I use emacs with jedi too, but the auto-completion is not so good. For example, if my code is: def function1(x): variable1 = x+1 return variable1**2 def function2(x): variable2 = 2*x return 5+v... And I get two auto-completion choices: variable1 and variable2 , while only variable2 is logical.

I just tried this example, since anaconda-mode + company (which uses jedi) has been really good for me, it doesn't show variable1 for me.

http://imgur.com/4l6Otvt

I used to use the auto-complete package instead, which in some configs (with ac-source-words-in-buffer or ac-source-words-in-same-mode-buffers in the source list) basically tokenize the buffer and provide autocomplete on all words.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#66

Post by nadams » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:34 PM UTC

compostor42 wrote: post #19

mvid wrote: post #5

I write Python professionally, and it will be pretty hard to get me away from PyCharm. I don't see anything in the blog post that indicates a feature PyCharm doesn't already have.

Agreed. PyCharm makes my developer life so much better.... I've been converting people from Eclipse to IntelliJ/PyCharm left and right at work.

I wish it was that easy for me. I've been trying to get people at my job to use or at least try PHPStorm (also made by Jetbrains) - but they seem to think that vi is much better (even though PHPStorm has a vi plugin).

I was also skeptical at first but once I figured out how to use remote xdebug - it was earth shattering for me.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#67

Post by S4M » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:36 PM UTC

tcas wrote: post #65

S4M wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use emacs with jedi too, but the auto-completion is not so good. For example, if my code is: def function1(x): variable1 = x+1 return variable1**2 def function2(x): variable2 = 2*x return 5+v... And I get two auto-completion choices: variable1 and variable2 , while only variable2 is logical.

I just tried this example, since anaconda-mode + company (which uses jedi) has been really good for me, it doesn't show variable1 for me. http://imgur.com/4l6Otvt I used to use the auto-complete package instead, which in some configs (with ac-source-words-in-buffer or ac-source-words-in-same-mode-buffers in the source list) basically tokenize the buffer and provide autocomplete on all words.

Thank you, I gonna check my settings. This bad autocomplete thing has been a mild annoyance for a while.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#68

Post by grub5000 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

larrik wrote: post #27

ohitsdom wrote: post #3

I'm a .NET developer so to me this is a slam dunk. How does the Python crowd feel though? I'd guess the majority tend to be Microsoft-adverse. Why wouldn't you use VS when it seems to be so ahead of the competition?

Because it's Windows-only still...

It's actually not:

https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/code-vs.aspx

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#69

Post by chupapuma » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:50 PM UTC

saboot wrote: post #25

I've been using PTVS for about two weeks now. Previously I just used Spyder which shipped with the Anaconda distribution. Some things that annoy me: - Reading intellisense python documentation in the mouse over window is really tedious. There is an object window that can display documentation for your classes, but not from libraries. - Rendered docs are much easier to read. Spyder did this very well. With PTVS I'm lo…

I am Chris Wilcox, one of the developers on Python Tools for Visual Studio. I am happy you have tried the product and glad you took the time to provide some feedback. We have some pretty decent GitHub support built in to Visual Studio and our tooling. With Visual Studio 2015 we also have a nifty 'Open in Visual Studio' button added to all GitHub pages.

As for the other things they aren't complete yet but they are definitely very valid suggestions. If you would file issues on http://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS we can track them and hopefully keep you posted on the progress to getting them into the product.

Re: Why Write Python in Visual Studio?

#70

Post by zer01 » Mon, Aug 03, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

mvid wrote: post #5

I write Python professionally, and it will be pretty hard to get me away from PyCharm. I don't see anything in the blog post that indicates a feature PyCharm doesn't already have.

I came here to say the same thing :).

It's easy to make the argument for switching from vim/sublime + ipdb to a real IDE, but that argument falls apart when you compare a windows-only, good-luck-trying-to-download-it-without-a-windows-account IDE.