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Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

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Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#231

Post by wredcoll »

Telemakhos wrote: post #222
robot-wrangler wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> main charge in the case was overstatement of real estate values to secure loans > The banks not only did not lose money from the transactions but in fact happily made money, and they had no complaint about the deals The first part is either a crime, or it is not, regardless of the second? Suppose I falsely say I am worth millions, and then actually win the lottery. It being true later doesn't change whether it was…

That's exactly why my first point was that it was a civil lawsuit brought by the Attorney General, not a criminal case: the underlying overstatement of real estate values was not charged as the crime of fraud, which would have required more proof including proof of intent and actual harm—of which the former would have been hard to prove, and the latter did not exist. The District Attorney (who handles criminal matter…

Crimes that are not known about are frequently not punished.

Rubbing it in everyone's face is not a great idea.

But, and this is the much more important point you are missing, is the difference between prosecuted for a crime you comitted regardless of how people learnes about it, and using completely unfounded accusations in order to use the prosecution itself as a punishment.

Trump has been prosecuted, several times, for actual crimes he committed. Hilary clinton as an example, had to deal with the obviously fake prosecution attempts of benghazi and email servers.

This is a gigantic and meaningful difference.

Have other people done some of these trump crimes and not gotten prosecuted? Sure, but that's not exactly a good thing.

Directing the doj to manufacture crimes in order to prosecute is much much worse.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#232

Post by senderista »

Spooky23 wrote: post #211
didgetmaster wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you totally proved my point. Both conservatives and liberals will almost always look at pardons by a president from their own party much differently than those by a president from the other party.

I don’t think so. I was pretty much raised in a family that was staunch Democrats and in a few cases even party officials at the local level. I was pretty young and not really caring, but I recall them being unhappy about Clinton’s last minute pardons as they were obviously compromised. I recall conversations about the Gerald Ford pardon of Nixon that happened around the context of Scooter Libby and there was an acce…

I definitely remember some Democrats being upset about the Marc Rich pardon.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#233

Post by senderista »

gbacon wrote: post #215
OtomotO wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am deeply sorry for your experience and I totally understand that it triggers something, but let's be ice cold logical for a moment. If there is no evidence of a crime, you cannot prosecute someone in a constitutional democracy. If you could you could just make up any claims and get rid of people you simply despise. Which happens in various regimes... So although it's certainly a possibility that such cases happene…

We are discussing the pardon power, an explicitly anti-democratic measure that is unilateral and unreviewable. The constitution defines a federal republic, not a democracy.

Not everything originally in the Constitution is a good idea, or at least isn't anymore. That's why it specifies an amendment process.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#234

Post by wredcoll »

miltonlost wrote: post #167
mattmaroon wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. While I don’t like Trump and never did, several of the prosecutions against him were political. By political, I mean they would not have happened if he had not become a politician, in fact, they didn’t until he became one and an unpopular one at that. And he’s doing much worse now so that’s two.

Which of the prosecutions were political hit jobs? Enumerate which of the federal and state crimes that Trump was convicted were actually politcal hit jobs. Your definition of political ("not happening if he wasn't a politician") is not what that definition is.

Yeah, the (untrue accusation) is the important part of the political prosecution phrase.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#235

Post by wredcoll »

frumplestlatz wrote: post #163
foobarchu wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> puts candidates they know aligned with their views, resulting in 'just wait until my turn comes and I will do as much as damage as possible' cycle. There is exactly one party in the US that does this, and it's because they have dedicated themselves to blocking the other party from accomplishing much of anything when they get power.

Hilariously (to me, anyway) — I genuinely don’t know which party you’re talking about. It could truly be either, depending entirely on which party you support.

That's sort of like saying you're not sure if the earth is round or not-- says much more about you and your understanding than anything else.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#236

Post by wredcoll »

Onawa wrote: post #200
LocalH wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting for the day when both the Democrats and Republicans are so very obviously shitty to even the most uninformed voter that we get some new thought in office instead of two sides of the same coin that are both beholden to capital and to foreign interests

As long as our voting system is "first past the post", it will be nigh impossible for a third party to make any significant headway. IMO Citizens United and first past the post are the two main issues holding the US back from any kind of significant overhaul or change.

First past the post doesn't meaningfull affect primaries and that's where major change could happen.

Hell, that's what trump did. He was a third outside party and won the republican primary.

Bernie sanders came fairly close to doing the same thing.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#238

Post by sanex »

foobarchu wrote: post #148
buckle8017 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

From what I can gather, Hunter Biden was guilty of tax evasion, possessing a firearm when he shouldn't, and lying about drug use. He shouldn't have been pardoned, sure, but you cannot possibly believe that's more corrupt than what Trump, his family, and his cronies do on a regular Tuesday afternoon.

No for sure. The prediction markets stuff really pisses me off.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#239

Post by vidluther »

varenc wrote: post #141

Extracted all the raw pardons here: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/varenc/cb2e2dacf1c92d36bc... I wanted to do some stuff with this data so need a raw format. (process was so easy since its included on a single page load, so I assume you don't mind! thanks for making this )

I'm thinking of exposing the sqlite db, and now possibly this JSON file as well.. I can take both during the build process and throw them up on CF. Great idea, thank you.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#240

Post by mandeepj »

bloppe wrote: post #227
solid_fuel wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither is fomenting a coup. And yet...

Trump was never found immune for that. We was just reelected before the prosecution could run it's course, and the DOJ never prosecutes a sitting president. Presumably the suit could resume once Trump steps down, but it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition

> offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition

Biden’s term just started fine without any transition

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