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Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

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Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#131

Post by jfengel »

malshe wrote: post #127
jfengel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"Time to move on" is used only when someone in power is guilty. Happened with Nixon. Mitch McConnell basically said the same thing about Trump after J6 insurrection. And I think Garland believed the same thing when he did not move fast enough to investigate Trump. People believe in law and order when rich and powerful face the same consequences as the common man for their crimes committed and not when they are let of…

I do think Garland made a massive mistake. Nixon resigned; Trump did not. Nixon largely disappeared, as most former Presidents do during their successor's term. Trump was still communicating crimes and clearly intended more.

I'm drawing a kind of fine and possibly meaningless distinction here. I think Ford made the best decision he could at the time. Garland had the benefit of hindsight: he saw the way the corruption had become far deeper than the President himself. Garland should have known better.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#132

Post by harimau777 »

siliconc0w wrote: post #38

We should at least ban the "preemptive" pardon if not all pardons. Pardon means forgiveness for a specific convicted crime, not a means to grant blanket immunity.

As long as that ban doesn't go into effect until after the next non-Republican administration. We need to be able to right the scales after MAGA's abuse of power.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#133

Post by buckle8017 »

sanex wrote: post #118
torben-friis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no reason to say that unless you know they're actively committing federal crimes in the present day. There are reasons. For example, you feel the justice system is going to be misused against them. Protection against future witch hunts basically. I don't think this is what's happening here, and trump is on record talking very explicitly about weaponising the state against his enemies himself, but it's probab…

That's what Biden did for Hunter right?

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#134

Post by kakacik »

9dev wrote: post #123
bloppe wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered what would happen if a president explicitly offers to pardon anybody who murders members of Congress. Would they settle on reigning in the pardon power with an amendment? We're sort of already there. A lot of the Jan 6 rioters were openly trying to murder congressmen. The fact they weren't successful isn't super reassuring.

Nothing would happen, because SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function, which would be the case here. It would literally be possible for the president to order congress killed, offer an automatic pardon to anyone carrying out this order, and establish a monarchy. This single ruling will haunt the United States for the rest of its existence.

It will be interesting to watch what comes next, if there will be next. But people die of natural causes and otherwise anyway.

Will it be the same a-lot-of-empty-talk-from-democrats like after first trump's term, or actually some concrete action? Clearly if next president would be democrat he can do some nice revenge and rebalance, maybe petty but maybe necessary. I would expect republicans do the usual crappy move of sticking with theirs regardless of crimes committed, any actual morals are an afterthought.

Its so weird to watch from outside, illogical, deeply flawed, unfair, and pretty weak system when it comes to handling unscrupulous sociopaths.

All bad is good for some things in hindsight, world desperately needs more decoupling from US. Petrodollars, swift and so on. Compared to this, judging by pure actions, chinese may seem saint in comparison

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#135

Post by dabinat »

salawat wrote: post #95
millbj92 wrote: post #76

Presidents shouldn't have the right to outright pardon people. It should have to go through some sort of body beforehand and be voted on like everything else.

The Pardon is a structural check on the legislative and judiciary. It cannot be done away with safely without causing massive problems down the road. If anything, this should be a learning experience for the country not to put criminally inclined presidents in office.

The pardon has been abused by almost every president in recent history to pardon their family or associates (as far as I’m aware, Obama is the only one who didn’t, but please correct me if I’m wrong).

It’s in dire need of reform or replacement.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#136

Post by JuniperMesos »

GorbachevyChase wrote: post #41
nonameiguess wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the numbers are going up simply because 1) 90s sentencing laws got insanely strict and prisons are full of old guys serving inflated sentences, 2) drug laws eventually became more lax and people are in prison for things that aren't even criminal any more, and 3) prisons have simply run out of space and it's easier to release people than build more. This kind of topic is bound to bring up a lot of outr…

Friend, I hope you do not actually believe that man was selling dope because of his nuanced political theories.

Sounds completely plausible to me. Lots of people who sold marijuana in the 90s had some kind of principled objection to the laws making it illegal to do so.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#137

Post by jmyeet »

mullingitover wrote: post #122
jmyeet wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be fine if high conviction rates reflected prosecutor's only bringing good cases. It doesn't. It reflects the odds being stacked against you and it being so expensive and high risk to defend yourself. This high cost and power imbalance is used to force people into plea deals for crimes they didn't commit. Let me give you an example: 924C enhancements [1]. This is where certain drug or violent crimes being com…

> I would be fine if high conviction rates reflected prosecutor's only bringing good cases. It doesn't. There is a huge amount of hand-waving following this assertion without any evidence to back up the claim. I'm not saying abuse of process doesn't happen, but this is just saying it can and then spelling out a big hypothetical without any proof that this practice is rampant.

It's hard to find quantative data but one clear example is DNA-based exoneration by the Innocence Project [1]

> Among the many insights drawn from these wrongful convictions is the realization that a guilty plea is not an uncommon outcome for innocent people who have been charged with a crime: 11 percent of the DNA exonerees recorded by the Innocence Project pleaded guilty

There's a thing called the Trial Penalty [2]. ~98% of charges result in a guilty plea. If all 100% went to trial the system would collapse. As such, prosecutors coerce plea deals [3]. But the Trial Penalty works pretty much like the example described: if you go to trial, you will be overcharged and face, say, 10-30+ years in jail. Or you can take a plea for 2 years.

This Trial Penalty is made worse with mandatory minimums and add-on charges like I mentioned (ie 924(c)).

This effect has been modeled with maths and game theory to show hoow extreme outcomes cause people to plead guilty more often [4].

This is a well-known problem in criminal justice. You're showing either a complete lack of imagination or simply don't think this will ever be used against you.

[1]: https://www.innocenceproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/...

[2]: https://www.tisonlawgroup.com/is-your-sixth-amendment-right-...

[3]: https://innocenceproject.org/coerced-pleas/

[4]: http://www.bernardosilveira.net/resources/Plea_bargain_Novem...

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#138

Post by edmundsauto »

ceejayoz wrote: post #46
GorbachevyChase wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> So two wrongs have made a right in this case? No, it was right to consider the possibility that Trump would violate the norms here. Letting the President right unaddressed wrongs is the entire reason the pardon power exists. His own current Chief of Staff has similar concerns, and grand juries seem to be taking the same position; that these are just revenge. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/16/us/politics/trump-susi…

The only reason he’s not constantly thinking about retribution is because he spends most of the time with his brain idle, or thinking of his next grift.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#139

Post by eszed »

jfengel wrote: post #116
didgetmaster wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most political arguments, if you listen carefully; those who advocate for or against pardons, only want them to go one way. A pardon is only a protection against a 'vengeful administration' if that administration is not your party. Pardons are only a miscarriage of justice if those pardoned don't share your ideology.

My (leftist) opinion is that we don't give enough pardons. By the time people get out of prison, their lives are pretty much wrecked. We should have a lot more clemency and compassion. That's what the pardon is for. If that means a ton of literal insurrectionists go free, that's fine with me. We elected someone precisely to do that. It's on the voters if we elected someone who was literally treasonous himself. I hope…

You would probably consider me to your right, but I'm right there with you. Prison should be protective: we lock up people from whom the rest of us will not be safe unless they are segregated. Ideally it is also rehabilitatative, and once (if!) prisoners will be safe and productive members of society there is no point to keeping them locked up.

If there are other methods short of prison that can render law-breakers harmless - such as restrictions on certain activities and occupations - then those should be pursued first.

The ghost of this philosophy, however attenuated, can be seen in systems of pardon and parole.

I acknowledge that a desire for retribution - to punish the evil-doer; make them suffer for what they've done - is a strong impulse (I feel it myself!), deeply imbedded in our tribal psyches, but it should be fought, not indulged.

This seems to me to be the only moral basis for a system of justice and incarceration, though I have no idea how to nudge a society towards this model. Some northern European countries approach it.

Re: Show HN: Pardonned.com – A searchable database of US Pardons

#140

Post by JuniperMesos »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #67

Presidential pardons should be banned, period. All presidential pardons are political in nature, and therefore not based on justice.

This is equally true of the criminal justice process that sentences people to crimes at all.
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