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Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

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Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#161

Post by adpoe »

anon764587 wrote: post #134

I've lurked a while and seen people give all the js is shit js fatigue blah blah and again we have this on this. question I've got to ask to people posing this question is are you not adaptable enough as a programmer to learn things fast?...I was a c# programmer and in 1 month it was like yeah no problem I understand the new tools. in fact the new frameworks taught me a lot about functional programming which was fant…

Just an opinion:

It's not that it's hard to learn this stuff. More so, it's tiresome and hard to care after watching the JS community re-inventing the same wheel(s), repeatedly.

Personally, I'd rather see the JS community solve a wider variety of problems.. instead of the same ones, over and over.

The amount of talent focused on building JS tools really is incredible. But it seems like the tools that generate the most hype always do the _same_ things, just in a shinier newer package. Which is frustrating.

I wasn't around at the time, but reading about programming languages past -- it seems like these are the same kinds of problems that fractured Lisp, back in the day.

The problem is this: It's fun, exciting, and relatively simple to roll your own X. So everyone does it. That's good. But too much fractures the community, instead of uniting it. Which.. may be more harmful than helpful, in the long-run. Time will tell. But the strongest & most productive communities typically converge on 'best-practices', once a problem is solved well enough. JS doesn't seem to do that. (At least not yet.)

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#162

Post by shados »

iansowinski wrote: post #120
hashbig wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a fun time to be a front-end developer?

Well, I think that compared to other fields, it's quite hard to get on board - there is so much tooling that it's really hard to catch up. There is node, npm/yarn, webpack, gulp, scss/sass. If you're back-end dev coding in ruby, you just pick rails and you're done if you're python webdeveloper, you pick django, and so on. With front-end? After hours of fighting with Babel and Webpack, you can pick Angular, React or V…

if you make a simple backend thing, pick up rail and you're done, but you're essentially building something that's a solved problem.

The frontend equivalent is dropping a script tag on a page and uploading it by FTP.

But there's a reason backend communities accepted devops long before frontend. Between all of the various BE platforms, all with their own dependency management intricacy, all the various databases, big data stores, queues, streams, object stores, cache systems, containers (docker, VMs, etc), the OS (for FE you can just drop your stuff on S3 and stick a CDN in front and it will scale to near infinity...try to scale your rails app like that for giggles).

BE is 100x worse.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#163

Post by jhall1468 »

photojosh wrote: post #135
baybal2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.x has ultra solid support from business software industry. It will for long remain "the COBOL of the web"

I have yet to do anything on my webapp that uses a JS framework (the minimal interactivity is raw JS and at most a touch of jQuery) precisely because I've yet to see a framework that I was somewhat confident would be relatively stable over the long term, say 10 years? Something like "COBOL for the web" would be ideal. But if I were starting now I wouldn't choose Angular 1.x, would I? Any recommendations.

A web app beyond trivial has to have a framework, if you don't use one than you built one and are now maintaining both the app and the framework.

I wouldn't call an app with "minimal interactivity" an app, anymore than I'd call a newspaper interactive reading material.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#164

Post by maxscam »

I dont particularly care whether or not its faster than vue or react. If I'm going to build a heavy use production app I would use one of those just because it has so much of a community supporting it. But sometimes less is more. The api here is simple, and yes similar to vue and react. The guts of the docs took like 5 minutes to read through. Over time, the novel concepts introduced by these frameworks turn into general best practices. That's what we see here. A boiling down of the reactive web framework into a small set of core methods. Certainly not the most powerful or extensible. But perhaps the most simple.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#165

Post by dankohn1 »

tw1010 wrote: post #111
iansowinski wrote: post #92

So we are here. It didn't took so long for vue to go from "will vue be new react ?" To "vuejs alternative".

I once told my non-technical friend about the hypewars and giant refactorizations that websites go through every few years and she couldn't believe it. Websites have hardly changed from the users perspective for like the past five years, yet in the background we keep modifying our tools.

I love this epic Businessweek story by Paul Ford that explains what's involved with coding by using a (hilarious) story of being a non-technical VP at a medium company trying to manage a website replacement.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-paul-ford-what-is-co...

"Technology conferences are where primate dynamics can be fully displayed, where relationships of power and hierarchy can be established. There are keynote speakers—often the people who created the technology at hand or crafted a given language. There are the regular speakers, often paid not at all or in airfare, who present some idea or technique or approach. Then there are the panels, where a group of people are lined up in a row and forced into some semblance of interaction while the audience checks its e-mail."

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#166

Post by kbr »

localvoid wrote: post #149
pkstn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no keyed benchmark for Moon, that's more difficult to optimize.

He tried to solve performance problems in complex applications, and obviously complex applications doesn't need to preserve internal state when children list is changing :)

Haha didn't see this. Moon hasn't hit v1 yet, and a keyed virtual DOM is definitely on the roadmap.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#167

Post by pkstn »

localvoid wrote: post #149
pkstn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no keyed benchmark for Moon, that's more difficult to optimize.

He tried to solve performance problems in complex applications, and obviously complex applications doesn't need to preserve internal state when children list is changing :)

:)

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#168

Post by [deleted] »

kbr wrote: post #166
localvoid wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He tried to solve performance problems in complex applications, and obviously complex applications doesn't need to preserve internal state when children list is changing :)

Haha didn't see this. Moon hasn't hit v1 yet, and a keyed virtual DOM is definitely on the roadmap.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#169

Post by pkstn »

leeoniya wrote: post #73
pkstn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yup, and non-keyed is the easiest part :)

indeed, it is; i don't need to tell you , though :p when i originally asked the author to submit Moon to js-framework-benchmark [1] i was surprised to hear that Moon's users have never needed or asked for keyed updates [2]. there are some authors (myself included) that consider libs without keyed DOM reconciliation to be seriously deficient. [1] https://github.com/kbrsh/moon/issues/84 [2] https://github.com/krausest/…

I believe so too!

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#170

Post by dang »

smegel wrote: post #68
kbr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to know why you think Moon is ridiculous, so I can try to improve it. I honestly think what you're doing here is really ridiculous, try and give some feedback instead. Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I interpreted your comment as saying all of these new frameworks are making things ridiculous. This implies that Moon is contributing to that, and I'd rather have feedback.

Your English comprehension is really bad. How's that for some feedback?

Incivility and acerbic swipes will get you banned here. You've done this many times on HN, unfortunately. Would you please fix this? Among other things, it sets the wrong example for the less laconic.
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