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Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

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Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#71

Post by pkstn »

kbr wrote: post #11
sscarduzio wrote: post #9

You say it's faster than Vue, but how much, how did you measure?

Moon is a part of js-framework-benchmark[1] (in the non-keyed results), and it performs faster than Vue there. The article I wrote a while back also has some benchmarks[2]. Finally, the overview section of the documentation also has benchmarks[3]. [1] https://rawgit.com/krausest/js-framework-benchmark/master/we... [2] https://hackernoon.com/introducing-moon-1d44a99635f0 [3] http://moonjs.ga/docs/overview.html

There's no keyed benchmark for Moon, that's more difficult to optimize.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#72

Post by smegel »

litzer wrote: post #62
smegel wrote: post #58

Can all the JS framework people lock themselves in a building for a year and figure our the right way to do this -- and only then share it with the world? Getting ridiculous.

This is a common thought: https://xkcd.com/927/ You could point to frameworks which have had majority usage at any given point and say those were the "right" ways at the time. But ideas evolve, which isn't so ridiculous.

The correct analogy would be "There are 14 competing standards with a new one released each week that creates doubt about the ongoing use of existing established standards and know one knows what the fuck is going on".

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#73

Post by leeoniya »

pkstn wrote: post #69
leeoniya wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

careful now... all frameworks are blazing fast, but some are more blazing fast than others. https://rawgit.com/krausest/js-framework-benchmark/master/we...

yup, and non-keyed is the easiest part :)

indeed, it is; i don't need to tell you, though :p

when i originally asked the author to submit Moon to js-framework-benchmark [1] i was surprised to hear that Moon's users have never needed or asked for keyed updates [2].

there are some authors (myself included) that consider libs without keyed DOM reconciliation to be seriously deficient.

[1] https://github.com/kbrsh/moon/issues/84

[2] https://github.com/krausest/js-framework-benchmark/pull/212#...

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#74

Post by jacquesm »

always_good wrote: post #70
jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I also do push-ups. See, it is rarely an either-or proposition. One could push vue.js to the limit and then decide to do a rewrite. But to take the rewrite option as the first available exit whilst explicitly referring to the original is fragmentation where I wonder if it is actually needed.

Well, it is either-or. All time spent has an opportunity cost. Just doesn't strike me as an argument. Nothing is needed, and need doesn't describe why most software exists. These sorts of comments amount to judging how others spend their time. It's just as silly to me as me suggesting that you spend your time credentializing in React so you can improve it for free. I'd say there's plenty of value to offer the world b…

Well, we're going to have to disagree on that. I feel that a lot of the fragmentation in open source is due to the fact that it sounds good to be the maintainer of some project, the fact that github presence is now considered a factor in getting hired certainly contributes to that.

Fragmentation - without sufficient forethought - is not cost free and 'more wood behind fewer arrows' works both for commercial entities and for open source.

Most of these 'alternative projects that stand on their own' are announced with great fanfare and die a silent death a few months later, the same effort spent on improving what is already out there would go a much longer distance.

Obviously everybody is entirely free to spend their time in whatever way they want.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#76

Post by kbr »

sockopen wrote: post #75

The title here says 7kb your front-page on moonjs.ga says 5kb and on the overview page comparing it to other frameworks it says 6kb. All say minified and gzipped.

Sorry! It looks like I haven't updated some parts of the site. The correct size is 7kb, thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#77

Post by nkkollaw »

kbr wrote: post #63
smegel wrote: post #58

Can all the JS framework people lock themselves in a building for a year and figure our the right way to do this -- and only then share it with the world? Getting ridiculous.

I'd love to know why you think Moon is ridiculous, so I can try to improve it. I honestly think what you're doing here is really ridiculous, try and give some feedback instead. Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood your comment. I interpreted your comment as saying all of these new frameworks are making things ridiculous. This implies that Moon is contributing to that, and I'd rather have feedback.

He never said Moon is ridiculous.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#78

Post by nkkollaw »

Looks good, but a slight improvement in speed is not enough IMHO to switch from a proven, popular framework (like React or Vue).

I think it takes a radical take on the problem to balance out the cons of using an unproven framework for any non-personal project.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#79

Post by kbr »

nkkollaw wrote: post #78

Looks good, but a slight improvement in speed is not enough IMHO to switch from a proven, popular framework (like React or Vue). I think it takes a radical take on the problem to balance out the cons of using an unproven framework for any non-personal project.

It's 7kb minified and gzipped. Vue is almost 30kb. If you use a runtime version of Moon, it becomes 3kb. This makes it faster to load on mobile devices.

Along with that, it also has lots of official plugins similar to what Vue provides.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#80

Post by erikpukinskis »

zzalpha wrote: post #59
erikpukinskis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what research looks like. You keep trying new things, making small improvements if you can. But sometimes you just try something different and it's not better. The truth, with software, is you don't really know what the implications of a design change are until you use it. We know a lot about what's good and bad about React now because we used it for a ton of stuff. That's the equivalent of taking your test v…

If you want something comprehensible and predictable, go use something else! Reflect upon this comment for a moment. What you just said is, if we want a comprehensible, predictable development ecosystem, we should just use something other than the web . Do you understand why this rebuttal is a bit ridiculous?

Honestly, no. I don't see what place ridicule has in a technical discussion.
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