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Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

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Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#121

Post by bartread »

hashbig wrote: post #101
iansowinski wrote: post #92

So we are here. It didn't took so long for vue to go from "will vue be new react ?" To "vuejs alternative".

Isn't it a fun time to be a front-end developer?

No: it leaves no goat unblown. Particularly for people new to it.

Back in the day anyone could hack together a bit of JS for their website and get something up and running, even if it was a bit Heath Robinson. You actually still can do this but you wouldn't necessarily come away with that impression from reading about front-end development. Cynically, it sometimes feels like front-end developers are overcompensating for years of JS derision from "real" programmers with the plethora of tools and technologies you "need" to know.

If people want to use this, well, they're welcome. I can even see some benefit to a very lightweight UI/framework, especially if you don't have to worry about any version of Internet Explorer below 11, because the browser APIs these days are pretty comprehensive, and tend to behave reasonably consistently. Likewise CSS. [1]

Still, I can't get in any way excited about yet another library/framework. Go ahead and use it if you like but don't be trying to evangelise me about it.

([1] As an aside: I will say that IE11 is still something of a problem child in terms of not supporting some things I use, or not supporting them well - flexbox is an obvious example. Conversely, "scumbag" Chrome can be a problem child simply because it lets you get away with doing things that you shouldn't be allowed to do at all. E.g., `element.style = 'display: none'` instead of `element.style.display = 'none'`, meaning that when you come to test your code in other browsers... it breaks.)

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#122

Post by baybal2 »

justinclift wrote: post #114
tw1010 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once told my non-technical friend about the hypewars and giant refactorizations that websites go through every few years and she couldn't believe it. Websites have hardly changed from the users perspective for like the past five years, yet in the background we keep modifying our tools.

Interestingly (to me), the AngularJS (1.x.x) repo on GitHub is still receiving a decent level of commits: https://github.com/angular/angular.js/commits/master Kind of glad about that, as it's what I'm still using. :)

1.x has ultra solid support from business software industry. It will for long remain "the COBOL of the web"

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#123

Post by brlewis »

baybal2 wrote: post #117
meandmycode wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Additionally, this 'fatigue' with front-end is getting a bit over told, I suspect it might be more alienation from developers who hacked jquery scripts together and feel they need to transition to app frameworks (I see so many simple websites and landing pages as react etc now).. where as those sites should just transi…

>Can you really prove that feeling? because that's far from my experience and far from logical too.. Cyclomatic complexity went up many times. Going over a simple for loop in under 100 kilocycles for client side page generation was considered ok back 10 years ago. Even then, browsers had no problem with that. Compare that with 20 plus layers of deep merges, with closure tricks, with prototype swapping on the fly in a…

I wouldn't describe modern front-end web dev that way at all.

Here's how I describe it: https://medium.com/front-end-hacking/how-it-feels-to-learn-j...

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#124

Post by brlewis »

smegel wrote: post #58

Can all the JS framework people lock themselves in a building for a year and figure our the right way to do this -- and only then share it with the world? Getting ridiculous.

Yes, we're going to lock ourselves in that building any day now, just as soon as the Operating System people come out.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#125

Post by johnfn »

kbr wrote: post #98
factsaresacred wrote: post #97

Congrats on building something that obviously took a lot of time and effort. But would it not have been easier to simply submit a few pull requests to the Vue.js project?

Thank you. It would actually have been more difficult to submit a PR to Vue, as Moon's internals are completely different. It would have tons of breaking changes as well, so I created a new project as a result.

Not knocking on your effort here, but you think that it would have taken more effort to submit a PR to Vue than building an entirely new open source framework from scratch over the course of several years?

If so, there is something very wrong with the state of open source development.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#126

Post by greyskull »

bartread wrote: post #121
hashbig wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a fun time to be a front-end developer?

No: it leaves no goat unblown. Particularly for people new to it. Back in the day anyone could hack together a bit of JS for their website and get something up and running, even if it was a bit Heath Robinson. You actually still can do this but you wouldn't necessarily come away with that impression from reading about front-end development. Cynically, it sometimes feels like front-end developers are overcompensating…

> it leaves no goat unblown

That's a first. Is that a common saying somewhere? Does it refer to literal oral sex with a goat?

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#127

Post by bartread »

greyskull wrote: post #126
bartread wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No: it leaves no goat unblown. Particularly for people new to it. Back in the day anyone could hack together a bit of JS for their website and get something up and running, even if it was a bit Heath Robinson. You actually still can do this but you wouldn't necessarily come away with that impression from reading about front-end development. Cynically, it sometimes feels like front-end developers are overcompensating…

> it leaves no goat unblown That's a first. Is that a common saying somewhere? Does it refer to literal oral sex with a goat?

Sadly I cannot claim it as my own: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blows%20goats.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#128

Post by dasil003 »

greyskull wrote: post #126
bartread wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No: it leaves no goat unblown. Particularly for people new to it. Back in the day anyone could hack together a bit of JS for their website and get something up and running, even if it was a bit Heath Robinson. You actually still can do this but you wouldn't necessarily come away with that impression from reading about front-end development. Cynically, it sometimes feels like front-end developers are overcompensating…

> it leaves no goat unblown That's a first. Is that a common saying somewhere? Does it refer to literal oral sex with a goat?

"blows goats" goes back decades, but tbh I never really thought about what it meant until this comment came forth with the hyperbole of fellating literally every goat in existence.

Re: Show HN: Moon – fast 7k Vue alternative

#129

Post by allover »

spankalee wrote: post #108
leeoniya wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

browser vendors need to do this. we need a standardized declarative dom patching mechanism with data-binding that has optimal perf so we dont need to keep reimplementing virtual-dom.

Over in Polymer, we're exploring ways to do exactly that: https://github.com/PolymerLabs/lit-html Template literals in JS give us a way to always tell the static from dynamic parts of a template. HTML elements let us stamp out pre-defined trees of DOM quickly. Combined we can then only update the dynamic parts without a virtual DOM.

Also see hyperHTML [1] which is same idea, but predates lit by some months. Comparison here [2].

[1] https://github.com/WebReflection/hyperHTML [2] https://gist.github.com/WebReflection/fadcc419f5ccaae92bc167...

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