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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#91

Post by ashtonkem »

camhart wrote: post #82
nerdjon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…

To be honest, I don’t believe you. “Our app will only be used by people on themselves in order to change their own behavior” is a wildly implausible use case to focus on for what is effectively spyware.

My takeaway is that I’m beginning to think that Apple was correct in blocking your app.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#92

Post by tptacek »

camhart wrote: post #58
bogwog wrote: post #52

Ignore the people calling you malware here. They’re just Apple fanboys who have never tried to run a business before. Your app sounds like it offers real value and is actually innovating. Apple is destroying your business at their discretion, for seemingly no reason. Have you consulted with any lawyers? If they’re suspending your account without any cause, I think that counts as a breach of contract on their end. And…

I appreciate this. Thank you. I'm sorry you were down voted at my defense. > Your app sounds like it offers real value and is actually innovating. Apple is destroying your business at their discretion, for seemingly no reason. People really get fired up about apps like this, but few people can say they've built software that has saved marriages and helped parents to raise their children. I honestly can and am honored…

They weren't downvoted for your defense; they were downvoted for belittling everyone else on the thread, which is straightforwardly against the HN guidelines, which you can read via the link at the bottom of the page.

I see a lot of people here who are critical of the app you're trying to sell but also doing their best to be helpful. If you're looking for a cheering section, you're probably not going to find it here; you asked a question in your post, and it is being answered, thoughtfully and thoroughly.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#93

Post by sneak »

openthc wrote: post #24

Hmm, ages ago we added a cannabis related app on Apple/iOS -- and there were loads of other (small-ish) already on there -- to help grow, or find (to buy) or to review cannabis products. Ours was for regualtory compliance -- a legal obligation for cannabis businesses. REJECTED! And after a 6mo appeal/review process -- with moving goal-posts -- we were allowed back in. YAY. And then they started getting into the appli…

> Ours was for regualtory compliance -- a legal obligation for cannabis businesses.

Cannabis businesses are illegal to operate in the United States, where Apple resides. Possession and distribution of cannabis is a federal felony in all 50 states and US territories.

This is an issue with the United States, not with Apple.

The lack of side loading is an Apple issue, but if you are going to make that argument (and you should!) then the cannabis app rejection is a red herring.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#94

Post by cronix »

nyuszika7h wrote: post #28
umvi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

> So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. It's not that simple. You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents who install it on their children's phones without consent. (Or heck, maybe even abusive spouses.) If parents are that concerned, even banning their children from "innoc…

> install it on their children's phones without consent

That's a curious phrasing. Are you implying a parent needs consent from their minor child to install something, anything they deem appropriate, on "their" phone?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#95

Post by datavirtue »

tptacek wrote: post #67
comeonseriously wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am willing to bet part of the issue is the targeting for this app. Then why can't Apple just fucking say that? Why all the stupid drama?

Likely for the same reason that not every rule about combating spam and promotion on HN is public: because if you document them all, you're providing a blueprint to bad actors for how to get around the rules.

Integrity by obscurity?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#96

Post by tptacek »

camhart wrote: post #90
tptacek wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.

Look at the MacOS app.

Respectfully, no. The Mac App store is not interesting in this discussion; you can install any app your want on a Mac (not necessarily via the App Store, but that's fine for a number of very big businesses that ship Mac software). What we're interested in here is the iOS App Store, which is the only way to realistically install commercial software on an iPhone.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#97

Post by p1necone »

camhart wrote: post #62
verall wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original version of the app I submitted for notarization had the Truple logo, with a red dot/circle to indicate recording and make it more suspicious. The redesign I did dropped the red dot/circle because competitors weren't being forced to do anything like that. Doesn't this seem kind of damning? Like you admit the recording dot is suspicious, so you remove it because why? Are you targeting anyone that isn't f…

Put on the hat of the end user. Keep in mind the end user is a child, or someone struggling with an online addiction/behavior they want to quit. They welcome the app, but those issues are somewhat personal. There's a balancing act I'm trying to walk here, of being reasonably suspicious while also not publishing for everyone who peeks over their shoulder that they're using an app like this. Again, if the red dot matte…

You seem to be sticking a hood over your eyes and pretending that your app is only used for the most morally sound use cases you can think of. You've written something that enables abusive relationships and helicopter parenting and you should be ashamed.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#98

Post by [deleted] »

threatofrain wrote: post #18
bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

I also don't want Apple approving apps which can essentially take over everything and eliminate all safety or privacy guarantees... but this developer is also saying that Apple has approved competitors of the same nature. I don't know how accurate the fine details are, but this story in its broad outlines seems very unfair and capricious.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#100

Post by tptacek »

datavirtue wrote: post #95
tptacek wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely for the same reason that not every rule about combating spam and promotion on HN is public: because if you document them all, you're providing a blueprint to bad actors for how to get around the rules.

Integrity by obscurity?

If you find that concept jarring, I think you'd be surprised by how much of security, compliance, privacy, and anti-spam is facilitated in part by obscurity. These tasks are about imposing costs --- ideally untenable costs --- on bad actors; obscurity has a cost as well.

There are times when obscurity isn't OK (notably, when it prevents other good actors from verifying the security of a piece of software), but this isn't one of those times.

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