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Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

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Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#71

Post by meheleventyone »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62
lm28469 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, free movement of labor, aka people _moving_ to their job. Not people fleeing their country to enjoy cheap Greek beaches on German salaries

The EU "freedom of movement" for work was drafted something like 60 years ago, well before the advent of remote work or even the internet itself, and is in a dire need of an update to modern times and modern ways of work. Labor mobility doesn't just mean me being free to moving across countries for work. Labor mobility means me being free to work for whichever company I want in the EU as an EU citizen, it doesn't hav…

Whilst I agree with you in principle it’s also employers being lazy, they absolutely can take on the burden of paying someone in a different country as an employee.

I work for a US based company in Iceland and they pay me as a FTE here and have done/do so in multiple other European countries.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#72

Post by nicbou »

ManBeardPc wrote: post #16

Germany: as a senior the market looks ok, although a bit slower and customers seem more hesitant to start expensive projects/hire additional contractors. I get a few job offers now and then, enough to not be unemployed long if I wanted/had to switch my employer.

From my (limited) perspective in Berlin, I see much more layoffs than previously, and a lot more friends looking for work for a longer time. It's especially hard on tech-adjacent roles like UX design.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#73

Post by nicbou »

oytis wrote: post #27
devdude1337 wrote: post #3

Freelance developer from Germany here. There is a significant drop in projects and a slowdown in permanent offerings, but no layoff wave like in the US. Demand is still high but due to the current recession most companies delay hiring for now. From my point of view there is also a skill-missmatch in Germany. While firms look for the usual most modern tech stacks, workforce is often conservative, staying years or even…

What is the bureaucracy in question? Required salary for the blue card is really low now, especially for tech workers, so basically you just go ahead and hire as I understand.

I run a website about this for a living.

1. It takes forever to get a residence permit and get permission to start working.

2. It's increasingly difficult to find housing, which is required for the residence permit.

3. The bureaucracy is notoriously slow and outdated, and full of catch-22 situations. It's especially apparent when you need everything at once.

4. The language barrier makes everything harder.

In other words, if you meet all the requirements, you're looking at a multi-month slog before you're finally allowed to start working. People sometimes lose their job before they start due to the immigration office delays.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#74

Post by ManBeardPc »

nicbou wrote: post #72
ManBeardPc wrote: post #16

Germany: as a senior the market looks ok, although a bit slower and customers seem more hesitant to start expensive projects/hire additional contractors. I get a few job offers now and then, enough to not be unemployed long if I wanted/had to switch my employer.

From my (limited) perspective in Berlin, I see much more layoffs than previously, and a lot more friends looking for work for a longer time. It's especially hard on tech-adjacent roles like UX design.

Yeah, sounds about right. Companies try to save money by hiring more juniors and skipping roles like UX. Rarely works out though.

For some reason, there seems to be enough money for AI, wast amount of meetings and convoluted interviewing and vetting processes.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#76

Post by FirmwareBurner »

meheleventyone wrote: post #71
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU "freedom of movement" for work was drafted something like 60 years ago, well before the advent of remote work or even the internet itself, and is in a dire need of an update to modern times and modern ways of work. Labor mobility doesn't just mean me being free to moving across countries for work. Labor mobility means me being free to work for whichever company I want in the EU as an EU citizen, it doesn't hav…

Whilst I agree with you in principle it’s also employers being lazy, they absolutely can take on the burden of paying someone in a different country as an employee. I work for a US based company in Iceland and they pay me as a FTE here and have done/do so in multiple other European countries.

>it’s also employers being lazy, they absolutely can take on the burden of paying someone in a different country as an employee

It's less about being lazy and more about the financial, law and tax overhead that comes with legally employing someone in another EU country as a FTE, as in most cases it means opening up a subsidiary/legal entity in that country which means another country who's laws you have to comply with. Not a huge issue for large enterprises which are already present in most countries anyway, but a big problem for small and medium sized companies. Unlike when doing business, a single EU legal entity is not enough to hire people remotely, you need a presence in each country where your workforce resides.

>I work for a US based company in Iceland and they pay me as a FTE here and have done/do so in multiple other European countries.

May I ask how? Did your employer open up an Iceland entitty or did they use some employer of record?

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#77

Post by GrumpySloth »

askonomm wrote: post #5
devdude1337 wrote: post #3

Freelance developer from Germany here. There is a significant drop in projects and a slowdown in permanent offerings, but no layoff wave like in the US. Demand is still high but due to the current recession most companies delay hiring for now. From my point of view there is also a skill-missmatch in Germany. While firms look for the usual most modern tech stacks, workforce is often conservative, staying years or even…

Most of the remote jobs I see from Germany also hire only those who live in Germany, so it seems to me that Germans don't even want EU citizens, just Germans.

Most of German job offers I’ve seen require proficiency in the German language. That’s unlike offers from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, or Israel, where you’re only required to speak English. Nothing else is ever even suggested in those offers. My sister works in Germany and says that while Germans are pretty easy to talk to in English on the street, in a shop etc., they’re reluctant to do so in a work context and she gets irritated looks when she only speaks at B1 level. Germany is pretty uniquely hostile to foreigners in that regard. I suspect that the requirement you’re speaking of is set up mainly to filter out those who don’t speak German very well.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#78

Post by ayuhito »

tkgally wrote: post #48

Japan: It's very hard for companies to lay off employees here, and I haven't seen any reports of large layoffs in the Japanese business press. However, a lot of IT work is subcontracted to smaller companies, and cutbacks in subcontracting might not make the news. Employment cutbacks by smaller IT firms might fall under the media radar, too. The picture of the overall employment situation as conveyed by the news media…

Also I think Japanese companies are super risk-averse in general anyways. Not many of them hyperexpanded and overhired in COVID, so there weren’t many extra employees to layoff anyways.

Re: Ask HN: Are tech layoffs happening abroad?

#80

Post by lm28469 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62
lm28469 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, free movement of labor, aka people _moving_ to their job. Not people fleeing their country to enjoy cheap Greek beaches on German salaries

The EU "freedom of movement" for work was drafted something like 60 years ago, well before the advent of remote work or even the internet itself, and is in a dire need of an update to modern times and modern ways of work. Labor mobility doesn't just mean me being free to moving across countries for work. Labor mobility means me being free to work for whichever company I want in the EU as an EU citizen, it doesn't hav…

Again, it's already possible. The EU's job isn't to please a couple thousands of code monkeys who want to get German salaries and Spanish lifestyle. The IT sector is one of the least impacted here, because it's already possible for companies to hire from other EU countries if they really want to
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