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Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

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Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#331

Post by [deleted] »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #247
darth_avocado wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

> You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. I'm just imagining this dude quitting and his manager suddenly realizing that no one else knows anything about the parts he worked on and how fucked they are now. Just because a bunch of people could take your job doesn't mean they'll give a shit about the job. Good, well motivated, employ…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#332

Post by hcks »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #247
darth_avocado wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

> You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. I'm just imagining this dude quitting and his manager suddenly realizing that no one else knows anything about the parts he worked on and how fucked they are now. Just because a bunch of people could take your job doesn't mean they'll give a shit about the job. Good, well motivated, employ…

Well, I don’t think an employee who fantasises about sinking the ship by leaving is still a “good, well motivated” employee

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#333

Post by [deleted] »

pyrodactyl wrote: post #55
kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

Its not a crazy conspiracy, I know it's pretty clear why it's being done. And I know I can't do anything about it other than look for new opportunities. But should location based pay be just accepted because that's the norm? There are variables that can't be used to do discriminate like age, gender, race, sexual orientation etc. We've accepted equal pay for equal work in these cases. Is it that far fetched that even…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#334

Post by KptMarchewa »

crispyambulance wrote: post #273
patrulek wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just imagining this dude quitting and his manager suddenly realizing that no one else knows anything about the parts he worked on and how fucked they are now. I would bet its rarely a case. We like to think that we are irreplacable, but after our quit company/project is still moving on.

> I would bet its rarely a case. I agree that life goes on, but it's not rare at all. It happens all the time. People leave and things are f-d up for a while. The thing is, it's not a permanent condition. People adapt, new hires are eventually found to fill the gap, or others who were thought of as not up to the task take the opportunity left by someone's absence to step up in their career. One person leaving won't s…

>There very much can be a "rats-leaving-the-sinking-ship" effect that can be precipitated by a key person leaving.

Oh, yes. One person does not sink a ship, but I've seen cases where whole teams leaving destroyed companies.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#335

Post by frostwarrior »

Friday0722 wrote: post #148
mattdeboard wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Alienation from the fruits of your labor. It's disgusting we expect people to tolerate it, and act like it's not a totally optional choice by management to exploit labor resources to get a better return on investment for the already wealthy. A modern take on colonization.

On the other hand, the only reason the company hired someone overseas was to save money. They would not have even considered these candidates if they weren't hugely cheaper. Instead, the company would have hired from the local labor market instead. What the submitter should be asking themselves, is whether they can pull a higher wage working from their current location with any other company. If they can do that, the…

Yes, of course.

But it would be a great motivator if they actually bothered to relocate you in case you showed remarkable performance and added value to the company.

"We just want someone to work for cheap without prospect of progress" tells me that job will have a low ceiling for someone that wants to progress further their career

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#336

Post by soneca »

shetill wrote: post #277
soneca wrote: post #33

It is a negotiation not a fairness discussion (even though fairness is part of the negotiation arguments). I asked about it in my current job before accepting the offer and was able to successfully negotiate it. In your situation, it seems that the only way is to look for a new job. Anyway, the way I negotiated was very simple. Basically a version of ”I understand that this is a good salary relative to my local marke…

Where do you even find these remote US jobs, they are either some big US companies that have local offices or US startups that don't take non-US people?

Big companies mostly only hire where they have offices, and almost none have offices in Brazil. So small startups that hire globally it is.

I find these jobs in either HN's "Who is Hiring?" or AngelList.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#337

Post by PurpleRamen »

rtlfe wrote: post #54
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #51

The cost of living point is very valid. A great salary in Hanoi is most likely to be a very low wage in San Francisco. You can't expect an employer to pay way above the local market rate for a position. Bottom line, they will always find someone to work if they offer a bit above the local market rates. The salary, whatever miles away makes no difference. As far as how to deal with it, look a round you I bet your sala…

> You can't expect an employer to pay way above the local market rate for a position. This would certainly be true for a business where all the employees and clients are local, but doesn't have to true for a global company with fully remote jobs. If I'm providing as much value as an SF-based employee and demand a raise to 80% of SF pay, the company would be foolish to let me leave.

Or they just take someone who is as good as you, but cheaper.

Companies are not social services, they don't aim to offer some welfare. It's a harsh reality, but their competition is not doing them a social service either. So everyone is doing their best to find the best balance which bring them the best outcome.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#338

Post by PurpleRamen »

jlbbellefeuille wrote: post #252

Paying a knowledge worker based on their physical location will soon become a relic, if your company does not realize this… quit and switch jobs. If your job requires you to be somewhere physically, your compensation is tied to what it would cost to replace you. In my experience employers rarely know what their Cost of Vacancy really is… let alone their Cost per Hire. I expect this will change.

> Paying a knowledge worker based on their physical location will soon become a relic, if your company does not realize this… quit and switch jobs.

It's a relic since 20+ years. And the end result is this discussion. Prices ultimately go down, because competition is rising and companies have the power to pay less. And automation will drive it even more to the bottom.

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#339

Post by karaokeyoga »

newaccount74 wrote: post #325
karaokeyoga wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job board, no relationship to anyone at the company … they reached out to me (my resume was available on the job board).

Do you have some specific skill set or lots of experience in a domain the company was looking for?

React!

Re: Ask HN: Location based pay is killing my motivation, how do others handle it?

#340

Post by tasuki »

darth_avocado wrote: post #144
kleinsch wrote: post #22

Your pay is based on the cost to hire your replacement. That’s it. There’s no crazy conspiracies, there’s no moral failing, they’re not running a calculator of how much value you generate. Would it sap your motivation to learn there are people doing your same job at FAANGs making double what you make? Or that some other job makes more money than you? Location based pay is just another variable. As with everything in…

> Your pay is based on the cost to hire replacement What is being described here is supply/demand economics. If you think you’re being underpaid, quit, find something else that pays you more. The reason why you won’t quit is the reason why the company doesn’t pay you more. You don’t have other options, and if you quit, they know there will be 10 other people ready to take you place for those wages. Part of the reason…

This doesn't necessarily work the same way if pyrodactyl and the people he works with all work remotely. If they did, then surely they'd fire 10 people based in the Bay Area and hire the "10 other people ready to take [the] place for those wages"?
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