Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 521 posts

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#141

Post by safety1st »

fshr wrote: post #30
colanderman wrote: post #9

1. Take time off, like a month or more. [1] Use it to do anything other than coding. Hone a hobby, travel, volunteer, etc. No-one will care about a month or two gap on your resume. 2. You are worth more than you currently think you are. Internalize this, know this, that is key. "I am a sole developer for Mobile and Web platforms at this startup in a very small team" --> is a desirable skill in and of itself. 3. Stop…

But what if they aren't worth more (as a dev, financially) than they think they are? They could be awful, but naively put in a ton of hours. Why do we assume people are worth more? Are we trying to make them feel better by making assumptions and potentially leading them horribly astray? Most people are supremely mediocre and there are just and many horrible devs as their are great ones.

It would still make sense to encourage their self esteem, because poor self-esteem is a self reinforcing condition. It negatively affects your mental health, and by extension your job performance and "worth" on the job market.

If a little bit of self delusion is what's required to break that cycle, then it's totally worth it.

Not that I think that's what's going on here. If you read between the lines of the OP it's my opinion that the main issues afflicting them are a poor self-image and bad networking skills. They're likely good enough technically but if they don't address the self talk they may never realize that.

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#142

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

fshr wrote: post #30
colanderman wrote: post #9

1. Take time off, like a month or more. [1] Use it to do anything other than coding. Hone a hobby, travel, volunteer, etc. No-one will care about a month or two gap on your resume. 2. You are worth more than you currently think you are. Internalize this, know this, that is key. "I am a sole developer for Mobile and Web platforms at this startup in a very small team" --> is a desirable skill in and of itself. 3. Stop…

But what if they aren't worth more (as a dev, financially) than they think they are? They could be awful, but naively put in a ton of hours. Why do we assume people are worth more? Are we trying to make them feel better by making assumptions and potentially leading them horribly astray? Most people are supremely mediocre and there are just and many horrible devs as their are great ones.

what if they would be great doing something entirely different. OP hasn't said if they ever had a point in their life when they really enjoyed what they did.

in my case brain fog from burn-out lasted not months but 6-8 years with varying severity. depending on how long you stay burned out or ignore the burn-out that might be less. E.g if you're without a support network during burn-out it may not be as straight forward to pull yourself out. Burn out might be not because they worked so much and are now financially stable but because they had to work so much because they could never make ends meet until now.

If they can afford it they should take time off radically - get rid of everything that ties them down, be in nature for min 6 months (example: a long hike -> heading from A to B so there is a purpose in the simplicity). Or cover yourself in books (not compsci or tech literature but something radically different) and spend the other free time physically exercising.

There are pretty clear signs of depression in these sentences (why I would focus on lot of exercise or routines that also demand a healthy diet). Alternative is to see a quack and pop pills for the next few months and risk some addiction as a result, or at least deal with weaning yourself off them again.

Doing radically different things than $dayjob means totally forgetting about technology for a while and opening yourself up to other things. Person is 28 ffs which is hardly an age where you can't start on a radically different career path and end up excelling in it. Worst thing would be to carry on as a dev and turn yourself from a bad dev to a mediocre one and pay for this poor "gain" with burn-out, brain-fog, depression for several years.

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#143

Post by mrmattyboy »

geodel wrote: post #61
fshr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if they aren't worth more (as a dev, financially) than they think they are? They could be awful, but naively put in a ton of hours. Why do we assume people are worth more? Are we trying to make them feel better by making assumptions and potentially leading them horribly astray? Most people are supremely mediocre and there are just and many horrible devs as their are great ones.

> and there are just and many horrible devs as their are great ones. I will say horrible devs are far more than great ones. In my 15 years of experience I have seen far more mediocre or downright horrible than great ones.

Quick question, if I may...

Of the horrible devs that you can think of, how many of them would reach out and say that they're horrible (or make a post like this) vs how many of them think they're great/superstars? :)

Certainly makes me think of the Dunning-Kruger effect!

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#144

Post by rramadass »

csk111165 wrote: post #74
temp8964 wrote: post #8

Only 10% of programmers are top 10% programmers, 90% are not. At age of 28, you should look at your life in a bigger picture. Instead of spending so much time on work, spend more time on your family and yourself. Also, I want to add that the feeling of being a loser is exactly because you are not thinking about your life holistically. If you are really depressed, and feeling this way all the time, you need to talk to…

This one liner "Only 10% of programmers are top 10% programmers, 90% are not." completely changed my view towards programming, I am also a software developer working at ANZ, but I do feel that I am not doing the great work. I just wanted to ask how to be at 10% of the top programmers, Is there any pathways? Please suggest, I do feel existential crisis in some point of time.

While i do not claim to have all the answers, the following suggestions might help.

What you are feeling is normal. Take a look at the book Why we do What we do: Understanding Self-Motivation by Edward Deci for some insights. Relentlessly work on improving yourself to get "better" at various aspects of "Programming" (assuming that is what you want). Don't compare yourself to others, focus on incremental improvement everyday and set your own Goals/Criteria. Become Self-Driven and proceed at your own pace.

Drops of Water, if they fall continuously, can bore through Iron and Stone - Chinese Martial Arts Saying.

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#145

Post by chmod600 »

28 years old is young. Lots of people are barely starting to figure things out by that age. I don't conaider that a red flag at all.

Find people who are better than you and hang out with them. And do what you can to take on new and different challenges so you can get out of the rut.

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#147

Post by frenchman99 »

dfcowell wrote: post #69
reflexe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who has been working in a small team for 4 years in a startup has to be "good enough". Which is far better than the average candidate who can't keep a position for more than a year and needs constant help from the manager in order to accomplish anything. Maybe my standards are low, but unfortunately, I have seen so many of these cases.

OP didn’t state where they are from, but there are plenty of places where it is extremely hard to fire, even if an employee is consistently underperforming. Not saying that this is the case in this circumstance (I don’t know OP,) but the “you must be good because you lasted 4 years” heuristic doesn’t work that well outside of the US, or similar markets with at-will employment.

Even in France which lots of people call "socialist", the company can fire you at any time and has to pay only about 3/6 months of salary for "wrongful termination". That's low enough to not keep constantly underperforming people.

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#148

Post by ineptech »

Lot of good advice here. Here's my two cents' worth:

Call literally any recruiter, and say "I'm a solid mid-level developer. I'm sick of my current job: the hours are terrible, and there's no support or mentorship. I'm looking for an SE2 position on an established team with senior devs I can learn from." What's the worst that could happen?

Re: Ask HN: Burnt-out, directionless but want to turn it around

#149

Post by iepathos »

I'm a fairly experienced software engineer also working for a startup. I think you should be forgiving with yourself. You sound skilled for what you're handling and your current experience level. You also sound overworked. This is such a common problem for startup engineers. It's very common to push yourself to very long hours that becomes unsustainable in the long run due to burn out. I think this problem has gotten worse since the pandemic. I've had to deal with burn out too. You need to take a break from the heavy hours at least a week or two where you completely unplug. None of this being on call 24/7, just completely unplug and don't read your emails. Focus on centering yourself, take a walk through nature or visit the beach and get out with some friends/family. It'll make a world of difference when you come back.
Post reply on HN