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Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#131

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

icebraining wrote: post #110
ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment. Calling someone you work with and barely know a milf is an asinine move. That said though - she might have led him on when she agreed to move the conversation to whatsapp.

According to what was told, they moved the conversation to Whatsapp before he asked her to hang out. What would she be leading him on about?

I think once the conversation is moved from the company slack channel to whatsapp qualifies it as getting moved from the work-related realm to the private realm.

One can argue that by agreeing to move the convo to whatsapp she sent a "sure let's have a private conversation" message.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#132

Post by NateDad »

falcolas wrote: post #125
NateDad wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a mistake. He didn't leave the server room door open. He called her a MILF.... TO HER FACE. He's not 12 (I assume). If he hasn't learned to be respectful to women before now, it's not this guy's job to teach him.

Per the side of the story we know. Do you know something not present in this narrative? The use of 'milf', whether it's derogatory or a compliment, will depend entirely on the context of the larger conversation. Something we don't have. Something which apparently the OP didn't have either.

No one makes up stories like this. They're ALWAYS TRUE. Plus, she probably can show him history on whatsapp (if it supports that, I don't know).

MILF is NEVER a compliment to a stranger. It's NEVER a compliment to a friend you just met. It's probably a bad idea even if you're in her bedroom and both stripping down about to have sex.

The only time it's sorta safe to call someone a milf is if you were the one who made her a Mom, and even then, it's VERY situational.

Basically, just don't.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#133

Post by Tharre »

First of all, the most important thing: talk to a lawyer. The real ones that demand money, not random people from the internet. Sexual harassment is a particularly nasty thing, because no matter what you do, judges will always be biased against you: You did nothing? How dare you accept sexual harassment at your company! You fired him? How dare you fire that innocent guy groundlessly!

Second of all, you need to listen to his side of the story as well. People are probably going to down-vote me for this one but taken out of context text messages don't mean very much. His friends could've played a very bad joke on him, the messages could be forged or he could've made an honest mistake.

Hell, if I were in your place I even would give the guy a second chance if he honestly apologized. But do make sure you watch him closely if you decide to take this route. These people do not tend to improve.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#134

Post by basch »

icebraining wrote: post #110
ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment. Calling someone you work with and barely know a milf is an asinine move. That said though - she might have led him on when she agreed to move the conversation to whatsapp.

According to what was told, they moved the conversation to Whatsapp before he asked her to hang out. What would she be leading him on about?

if i said "can we move this conversation somewhere more private, and outside work" and you said "yes" is there an implication of some consent?

could the guy have been imagining that her agreeing to move the convo was her approval, and anything further was her playing hard to get?

that said, the magic words "sure as friends in work context" should have been a cease and desist to end any further bright ideas.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#135

Post by logfromblammo »

icebraining wrote: post #110
ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment. Calling someone you work with and barely know a milf is an asinine move. That said though - she might have led him on when she agreed to move the conversation to whatsapp.

According to what was told, they moved the conversation to Whatsapp before he asked her to hang out. What would she be leading him on about?

Implicitly agreeing to continue a conversation that may become inappropriate for the regular employer-provided channels.

In more archaic terms, he asked for her number so that he could call her up after work. If she were not at all interested, she would not have released her personal contact info.

Obviously, she was not expecting him to immediately blow his chances by making a clumsy, ham-handed, and vulgar come-on. She [wisely] notified her boss because men that do not demonstrate emotional maturity may have difficulty handling rejection gracefully.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#136

Post by basch »

whatok wrote: post #75
ceejayoz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't want to be seen as a problem, and I don't want this to be a case of management portraying it as 'that guy we love got fired because X can't take a joke'".

What is a manager supposed to do in this situation that does not lead to something along the lines of that? In that case, why bother bringing it up?

"i heard what was said, and although she might not have a problem with what you did, I do"

make it about you as management being the one that cant take the joke.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#137

Post by icebraining »

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #131
icebraining wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to what was told, they moved the conversation to Whatsapp before he asked her to hang out. What would she be leading him on about?

I think once the conversation is moved from the company slack channel to whatsapp qualifies it as getting moved from the work-related realm to the private realm. One can argue that by agreeing to move the convo to whatsapp she sent a "sure let's have a private conversation" message.

"Private conversation" is anything not related to work, from asking if there's a good restaurant to geeking out on the latest TV show episode; it certainly does not imply any sexual attraction!

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#138

Post by 8d11a455d235f38 »

You need to listen to guy's side of story. When I first came to this country, people told me never ever date anyone from work. I was focused on my career and too scared to mess up. I met some wonderful people at work, we made friendships, and some are still friends.

But sadly I took that advice too closely to my heart. Many of my crushes ended up dating someone else at work or outside. Some even found their life partners at work. It seemed only I followed this advice. As introvert, it was hard for me to meet people outside of work context.

The guy probably had no clue that he was making her uncomfortable. He needs training, not a life time of loneliness.

Re: Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment complaint at my startup?

#139

Post by icebraining »

basch wrote: post #134
icebraining wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to what was told, they moved the conversation to Whatsapp before he asked her to hang out. What would she be leading him on about?

if i said "can we move this conversation somewhere more private, and outside work" and you said "yes" is there an implication of some consent? could the guy have been imagining that her agreeing to move the convo was her approval, and anything further was her playing hard to get? that said, the magic words "sure as friends in work context" should have been a cease and desist to end any further bright ideas.

That specific wording ("somewhere more private") might imply acceptance of sexual advances, but nowhere do we see those words in the original post, and I find it hard to believe that one would say "yes" to that if one wasn't interested in being asked out.
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